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Is there a way to set the timing without timing light?

chargerbelgium

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Hi guys, I recently changed my complete ignition system.
New Fire Core ReadyToRun distributor, coil, spark plugs & wires and a new engine harness.
I set the timing by hearing/feeling and it runs more or less OK.

Reading about ignition timing I might be having it too much retarded. The car starts fine but I smell much fuel, engine seems to heat up fast, the Bird doesn't have a crisp throttle responce at all, stumbles when flooring...

Also the carb (Edelbrock 1806 Thunder Series 650CFM), will be needing adjustment, looks like it's running too rich. (I notice black spark plugs)

Someone told me to start with setting the air/fuel ratio first and then to get the timing right...


Can someone give some tech tips to just set it as good as possible so I can get her to a shop so they can get her fine tuned?

Thanks for the help! CB
 

Big John

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Buy a timing light. You can't do much without one.
 

Basketcase

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I've been doing it by ear for years. I got started when I had my '68 Charger, and the harmonic balancer marks had moved.
 

Mopar Vince

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The "hill-billy" method of setting timing

Since Most early American V-8 engines will only take so much timing advance before "pinging"; and since they seem to run well just before that; here is how to get to there without a timing light. (the hill-billy method)

Tighten the distributor to the point it can be moved by hand but tight enough that it wont move while driving. (or take your trusty 1/2" wrench with you.)
Take the car for a short drive to a spot you can do some acceleration runs and also pull over if needed.
Turn the distributor the way the vacuum advance is pointing with the engine running. (clockwise for a mopar big block)
This will usually cause the idle to increase. (you may need to turn down the idle screw with your trusty flathead that you brought)
Now go drive the car.
In second at the low end dump into the throttle. Did it ping?
If no pull over and advance it a bit more.
Repeat this until it pings just slightly.
Then back it up to the previous "no ping" spot and tighten the distributor down.

Now engine has the timing is set to as much advance as it will eat.

There are several factors to also consider.
  • are your points if you have them set correctly?
  • are you actually running the vaccum advance? (I have found that most of my big blocks liked a bit more initial timing and no vacuum advance)
  • did you hook the vacuum tube to the right port on the carb?
  • are all of your wires on the right plugs?
  • are all of your new wire connections tight from the ignition work?
  • are you running "good" fuel?

Hope this helps you.
Now go buy a timing light.
 

Basketcase

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have had a light for years, I just never use it.
 

quikbird

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just as an average most big blocks will come in about 34-36 degrees advance at all in. each engine is just a little different but that number will get you close.
 

Basketcase

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how do you know...your car doesn't run yet.........:acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::acme::jester:
 

A12

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I thought there is a way to do it (points distributor) with a test light attached to the distributor points lead by bringing #1 cylinder near top dead center on the compression stroke to the static ignition timing mark on the crankshaft. Then turning the distributor until the test light goes on (or is that off???) and that is the firing point? I did a Mallory dual point distributor like that (I think) back in the day.


MikeR
 

69hemibeep

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If you have a timing tape on the balancer and points turn the key to run, set the total amount of advance you want on the balancer, twist all the timing out of the distributor by turning the rotor and turn the distributor until the points spark. This is all done with # 1 cylinder of coarse
 
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quikbird

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yeah, yeah, yeah. have a couple ideas but haven't had time to go play with the bird and test them out yet.
 

Big John

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Buy a timing light.
 

Ranger

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A12

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How do you use a timing light if the engine is not running and you what to see if you are at least in the ballpark with ignition timing before you try start it?
 

A12

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I thought there is a way to do it (points distributor) with a test light attached to the distributor points lead by bringing #1 cylinder near top dead center on the compression stroke to the static ignition timing mark on the crankshaft. Then turning the distributor until the test light goes on (or is that off???) and that is the firing point? I did a Mallory dual point distributor like that (I think) back in the day.


MikeR

Found this from back in 2002, has a couple of other tips or methods on how to set ignition timing without a timing light. I have a Snap-On adjustable timing light that I've had for a long time but I always like stuff like this, MacGyver eh?


Gary T03-22-2002, 08:21 AM
There is a procedure for setting the ignition timing to the spec without a timing light. It requires a test light or a voltmeter. Carefully done, it's rather accurate, easily within one or two degrees.

First, set the point gap, or better yet, the dwell angle. If a dwell meter is available, that's definitely preferable to a gap measurement. Experience has shown me that in many cases the specified point gap doesn't always result in the specified dwell. Dwell angle is what you really want, point gap is an approximate way to achieve it.

You need to know which direction the distributor rotor rotates. A manual will tell you, or you can observe it by cranking the engine with the distributor cap off or by watching while doing the next step.

Bring the crankshaft to the timing spec. In other words, if the spec is 5 degrees before top dead center, you want the pointer at the 5 degree mark. It must be brought there in the direction of normal engine rotation (clockwise on the overwhelming majority of cars, but observe it to be certain). Rotating backwards to line the mark up brings in any timing chain slack and skews the synchronization between the crankshaft and the distributor (which is driven off the camshaft). If you pass the mark, you can go back a ways beyond it to "reset," but be sure the final motion is two inches or more of crank pulley circumference in the direction of normal rotation.

Loosen the distributor hold-down enough to be able to turn the disributor. Connect the test light or voltmeter to the coil negative terminal (which should connect directly to the points in the distributor), with its other end connected to ground. Turn the ignition switch on.

If the points are open, the test light will light up (or the voltmeter will read battery voltage). If the points are closed, the light will be off (voltmeter reads zero). DO NOT ALLOW THE POINTS TO REMAIN CLOSED WITH THE IGNITION ON ANY LONGER THAN NECESSARY. This burns points up in short order. Side note: generally you want to avoid having the ignition on with the engine not running. If the points happen to be closed, they will suffer. Use the accessory position or let the engine run.

If the light is on, turn the distributor in the direction of its rotor rotation until the light goes off. (If the light is off, presumably it's already where you want it.) Now turn the distributor in the OPPOSITE direction of its rotor rotation until the light comes on. Go back and forth a time or two to get the feel of it. You want the distributor to be at the exact point where the light just comes on when rotating it opposite from rotor rotation. Tighten the distributor hold-down. Done.

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cornflakes03-22-2002, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Gary T
There is a procedure for setting the ignition timing to the spec without a timing light. It requires a test light or a voltmeter...Bingo.

If you don't have a ohmmeter, set the engine on the compression stroke, then remove the distributor cap and put some cellophane from a pack of cigarettes between the points. Pull gently on the cellophane as you rotate the engine towards top dead center. The cellophane will move when the points open, and this is where your timing is currently set.

You might also try turning the engine until you're at the timing mark, retarding the distributor and then turning the distributor until the cellophane pulls out, but you would probably want to check it again by turning the engine afterwards to make sure the timing is right.

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jsleek03-22-2002, 09:34 AM
I used the test light method, as suggested above, on my VW for a long time. I didn't even need the light, as I could hear a spark across the points as they opened. So set the timing mark by turning the engine (somehow), turn on the ignition, rotate the distributer to hear the spark.
 
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