For the Ray Barton fans

[SomeCarGuy]

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/sho ... w=1#UNREAD

 

[george68hemirr]

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE WHATS UP WITH THAT ENGINE :toetap:

 

[SomeCarGuy]

45 minutes?

I figured 15 or less.

Little disappointed. :toetap:

 

[69hemibeep]

I was reading that myself thinking of George yesterday

 

[ACME A12]

Hard to believe the number of these stories...all with the same refrain...sure makes you want to rush right out and hand Barton $20K or $30K of your hard earned money doesn't it...??? Not.

How does this guy stay in business? :huh:

 

[mannye]

If you were buying an engine, who would you buy it from? I've heard about Barton's problems and the refusal to recognize when something's gone wrong on one of his products on here, and I've also heard that others have had terrible experiences with the Mopar crate motors.

Is there anyone that stands behind the product?

 

[Roadcuda]

If you were buying an engine, who would you buy it from? I've heard about Barton's problems and the refusal to recognize when something's gone wrong on one of his products on here, and I've also heard that others have had terrible experiences with the Mopar crate motors.

Is there anyone that stands behind the product?

That's one of the big problems these days Manny. It seems to me that there are less and less people who do care. An example. On our trip to The Nats, we stayed at a Ramada Inn at a facility they must have recently took over. The place is a bit run down, but the rooms were clean. But, the ac didn't work in the first room they gave us, it did in the second room. They didn't have any a/c running in the hall ways which were very hot and humid, and of the 5 ice machines only one gave us any ice, and the site computer we could use wouldn't boot up even after 10 minutes of waiting as we sweated our butts off. No a/c, and this is by the main desk! :brickwall: If they really cared about their customers this place wouldn't be like this.

 

[mannye]

So like everything else these days, it seems one must learn to "do it yourself" Those guys on Spike and Speed (Two Guys Garage, Gearz, etc.) make building an engine from scratch look easy. But I'm pretty sure it's not as straightforward as they make it seem.

You know, if someone were to offer a kit, with step by step assembly instructions (torque specs, how to set valve lash, etc.) I bet a lot of folks would jump at something like that both for the fun of building your own engine and to save a lot of cash as well.

 

[ACME A12]

If you were buying an engine, who would you buy it from? I've heard about Barton's problems and the refusal to recognize when something's gone wrong on one of his products on here, and I've also heard that others have had terrible experiences with the Mopar crate motors.

Is there anyone that stands behind the product?

Building an engine for a project is for me the absolute zenith of the entire process. Everybody is different, and everybody brings different skill sets to the table, so I'm not throwing anyone under the bus that chooses to go the crate motor route, or have someone build them an engine. In the case of George's monster Hemi it makes good sense to have the machinist that does the prep work do the final assembly as well. Too many $$$ at stake IMHO. But absent the extreme $$$ investment or the all-out race engine that's intended to only make it through a season, not building the engine (for me - again JMHO) is missing out on one of the most rewarding parts of this hobby. If a novice was contemplating this I would say go for it. There are PLENTY of good books out there to guide you if you've never done it before, and if you TAKE YOUR TIME and pay excruciating attention to detail you're virtually assured of success. There are plenty of good machine shops out there and finding the right one for you will probably be the hardest part of the process. I know I am fortunate to have a close friend that does all of my machine work and working closely with him - there probably isn't a project I wouldn't tackle myself. And yes, he does build complete engines and stands behind them if anyone is interested...

 

[Basketcase]

I helped rebuild the 440 that was in Freebird, back in '86 when it was for my Charger. Dad had a friend that had rebulit engines for a while help us. Mine was a stock rebuild. He told us the machinist does the hard work. we basicaly just assembled the engine. Dad's friend showed us different things that let you know which way a part goes and such. I was surprised how asy it was. now for a big horse like George's, that would be out of reach for a novice like me. Butif you're doing a stocker. Like Ray said, lots of good info, find a good shop and have at it.

 

[69hemibeep]

If you were buying an engine, who would you buy it from? I've heard about Barton's problems and the refusal to recognize when something's gone wrong on one of his products on here, and I've also heard that others have had terrible experiences with the Mopar crate motors.

Is there anyone that stands behind the product?

Building an engine for a project is for me the absolute zenith of the entire process. Everybody is different, and everybody brings different skill sets to the table, so I'm not throwing anyone under the bus that chooses to go the crate motor route, or have someone build them an engine. In the case of George's monster Hemi it makes good sense to have the machinist that does the prep work do the final assembly as well. Too many $$$ at stake IMHO. But absent the extreme $$$ investment or the all-out race engine that's intended to only make it through a season, not building the engine (for me - again JMHO) is missing out on one of the most rewarding parts of this hobby. If a novice was contemplating this I would say go for it. There are PLENTY of good books out there to guide you if you've never done it before, and if you TAKE YOUR TIME and pay excruciating attention to detail you're virtually assured of success. There are plenty of good machine shops out there and finding the right one for you will probably be the hardest part of the process. I know I am fortunate to have a close friend that does all of my machine work and working closely with him - there probably isn't a project I wouldn't tackle myself. And yes, he does build complete engines and stands behind them if anyone is interested...

I'm with you Ray. If I were to buy a crate motor I'd pull it apart anyway, its my favorite part of a car and I wish I had the equipment and skills to do the machine work also. I have done a valve job in the past but my tools moved away

 

[mannye]

Right there is one reason I would never try it while I live here. I can't get a decent roof repair and the thought of handing my stock (or mild or wild) engine parts to one of the mouthbreathing idiots that populate most of the shops around here is enough to make me sick.

One example... Back in 96 I decided to have some bigger gears installed in my (relax...it was a momentary lapse of judgement and Mopar didn't have any real cars in 95) 95 Impala SS. I get the gears and hand them to a mechanic with a supposedly good rep. True to his word, i get the car back in two days. The gear make a huge difference.

Then about three days later, some idiot cuts me off and I have to slam the brakes on. GUESS WHAT?? The asshole didn't reinstall the reluctor when he put the new rear end gears in! I proceeded to perform THREE 360 degree spins IN TRAFFIC and was very lucky to not hit anyone or anything. I couldn't figure out what had gone wrong until another mechanic found the problem.

And pretty much every experience with a mechanic down here (until the last one that found the other dude had advanced my tiiming 20 degrees...remember the shutting off thing?) has had some kind of amazingly FUBAR story...

So... looks like I'm a crate engine guy! I'm not gonna go through a bunch of different machine shops !

 

[moparchris]

I agree a good machine shop is hard to find. I check all my clearances and double check every part that the machine shop touched. Like Ray said, it is fun and can be very rewarding. Crate motors are great as well as trusting a great engine builder. There is no shame in plug and play motors. We all work so hard to make our cars what they are and you have to make your own decisions about which direction you go with your car. I happen to really enjoy assembling my motors and hearing them come to life right before my eyes. I remember the first rearend I built for a 8 second car. We were at the track and it proceeds to explode off the line and wheelie for 150 feet or so with the wheels 3 feet in the air, then go over 150 mph. I thought to myself "holy sh&t ! I just was bolting that rearend together a few days ago!" Now its old hat. But its cool to see the fruits of your labor.

 

[zupanj]

It is kind of interesting how reputations are formed and hold over time. I talked to Barton a few times about building a hemi for my Roadrunner. I went there because of reputation and because of a mutual friend. His is in PA and a fairly easy drive from my house. Utimately I decided not to go with him largely because I had heard a few things from several people. One thing to consider is that his real expertise is building all-out race engines though he builds the 572 crate engines now. When I was talking to Barton I had also contacted a guy from North Carolina, John Arruzza. A guy in my area had a hemi built by him and had all kinds of trouble so I wrote him off as well. I ended up buying an engine from a guy who had it in Moparts and offered to have it dynoed before the sale. That actually got complicated but it all worked out in the end.

By the way if you want a hemi built, I think Tim Banning of For Hemis Only would be a good choice. He is knowledgeble and easy to talk to. I had heard nothing but good things about him. He did some of George's head work. I bought throttle linkage and an air cleaner from Tim. Expensive but good quality stuff. By the way if you like hemis be ready to part with a lot of bucks.

This kind of stuff is not confined to hemis. I had a similar issue with my 427 Ford side-oiler. I bought it from a guy who had a sterling reputation on the web. There was never a negative thing said about him on the major Cobra sites and all praised his name. I paid top dollar for this engine and it has been good to me but a lot of the parts were used like the flywheel and the carbs. The carbs were totally screwed up and I had to have them rebuilt and calibrated. Some the the other parts were old and used as well. A friend also bought an engine from this guy and had to return three of them before he gave up and got his money back. To the builders credit, he paid up. So it is not easy to find people who do the quality of work you want. I pays to dig hard before you make a decision.

 

[SomeCarGuy]

I know they won't make BIG power, but Chrysler built engines tend to never screw up. Change the chain, cam, etc and they don't let you down. I've went that route many times over the years and I never have to take stuff back or argue with some guru about things.

I have even had trouble with stuff like NEW oil pumps and bolted back on a crapped out OEM pump and it still worked just fine. Even mismatched cover and main body messes still worked but leaked.

 

[69hemibeep]

I know they won't make BIG power, but Chrysler built engines tend to never screw up. Change the chain, cam, etc and they don't let you down. I've went that route many times over the years and I never have to take stuff back or argue with some guru about things.

I have even had trouble with stuff like NEW oil pumps and bolted back on a crapped out OEM pump and it still worked just fine. Even mismatched cover and main body messes still worked but leaked.

Well the crate Hemi's are another story, when assembled in Mexico they were hand grenades, now Cummins is assembling them its a 50/50 thing. Do you run it and blow it or tear it down and check it out? Its only $13000. bucks you might throw away :yesnod:

 

[SomeCarGuy]

Somehow people have forgotten how they built them back in the 60s-70s. Pretty bad when worn out 40 year old engines hold up better than brand new stuff.

 

[69hemibeep]

Somehow people have forgotten how they built them back in the 60s-70s. Pretty bad when worn out 40 year old engines hold up better than brand new stuff.

Its my understanding they were all assembled at the marine plant and dynoed before shipping back in the day.