making the right choice

[mac]

ok here i am again with trying to make a choice of what to do with my engine. first a little background, made the rookie mistake of putting in the MP 484 cam the first time around. lousy idle and lousy performance in the lower rpm range, lousy vacuum. so, changed to a lunati cam with different numbers and was hoping to wake this engine up a little. had a "friend" install the cam (because it was his degree wheel). he says i am good to go. well the vacuum was better, and the idle a little better but now it is a tuning nightmare with carbs and ign timing.

this brings me to this, i am going to recheck his cam timing. 2 things as i see could happen. 1, the cam is not installed correctly and all i will do is reset the timing. and 2 it is installed correctly, in that case i have a Mr six pack cam ready to go in. also playing with the idea of putting on a set of stealth heads that i have sitting here.

so lets hear it. what do you guys think is the way to go?

 

[Hoosier Bird]

 

[SomeCarGuy]

I think one of the recent Mopar rags had a column that mentioned the Lunati cams are junk in a Mopar. I think Comp Cams were not cut down in that little tidbit.

I have no idea what the specs are of a Mr Six Pack cam. Let's hear about that and the rest of your combo.

I have never like the Chinese parts but that isn't my call. Any head will need some bucks throw at it no matter where it comes from.

If the cam isn't degreed in right then it is for sure worth a try after correcting it.

 

[mac]

I think one of the recent Mopar rags had a column that mentioned the Lunati cams are junk in a Mopar. I think Comp Cams were not cut down in that little tidbit.

I have no idea what the specs are of a Mr Six Pack cam. Let's hear about that and the rest of your combo.

I have never like the Chinese parts but that isn't my call. Any head will need some bucks throw at it no matter where it comes from.

If the cam isn't degreed in right then it is for sure worth a try after correcting it.

i believe i read the same thing in the tech section about lunati cams. the author made a statement that lunati cams fall on there face above 5000 rpms.

as for the specs of the mr six pack cam, nobody knows. all i can say is after talking with him and others that are using his cam have nothing bad to say about it. it is just a good overall performance street cam.

the idea about the heads is am just over 10:1 comp and i thought this would help with any possible knocking problems.

here is a question to ask, who knows what cylinder pressure there car is producing. currently mine is 145 on average and if most are higher that would also make me think that the current cam is installed wrong. i would like to think most would be 165-185. i know this depends on alot of variables, but there should be a pattern.

 

[SomeCarGuy]

That does sound a bit low. I don't know about my car.

Are you sure yolu have 10 to 1 or just 10 to 1 pistons? Might have big chambers or ??????

I would be a little uneasy about putting in a cam that the guy won't tell me what is going on with it. It would likely be OK, that just doesn't sit well with me. Does he at least publish and IC? I guess the cam could be measured when you get it. I'm not trying to talk you out of it as much as I'm against secret crap. I'm sure he (Bob K right?) doesn't want a trick to get out but it can be measured I'm certain.

If it were me, I would pick out some aluminum heads of choice, call Dwayne Porter and have him price them in cleaned up form. You will get the best overall deal by getting the heads at the shop that fixes them. They all seem to need some truing up. I have got stuff from MM, Dwayne, Best Machine, and Todd Marsh. I have been satisfied with all, but fast68 seems to have it on the heads. Chuck is sharp as well, he fixed my Stage 6 heads. Todd helped me a bunch on a 496 build that turned out great. MM did me right overall but I just don't get that feel that I have from the other shops.

 

[dobie]

I think one of the recent Mopar rags had a column that mentioned the Lunati cams are junk in a Mopar. I think Comp Cams were not cut down in that little tidbit.

I have no idea what the specs are of a Mr Six Pack cam. Let's hear about that and the rest of your combo.

I have never like the Chinese parts but that isn't my call. Any head will need some bucks throw at it no matter where it comes from.

If the cam isn't degreed in right then it is for sure worth a try after correcting it.

i believe i read the same thing in the tech section about lunati cams. the author made a statement that lunati cams fall on there face above 5000 rpms.

as for the specs of the mr six pack cam, nobody knows. all i can say is after talking with him and others that are using his cam have nothing bad to say about it. it is just a good overall performance street cam.

the idea about the heads is am just over 10:1 comp and i thought this would help with any possible knocking problems.

here is a question to ask, who knows what cylinder pressure there car is producing. currently mine is 145 on average and if most are higher that would also make me think that the current cam is installed wrong. i would like to think most would be 165-185. i know this depends on alot of variables, but there should be a pattern.

Hey Mac, I did a cylinder test a few months ago and posted the results here. I'll see if I can find my post.

Here's a link:

http://69roadrunner.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=509

 

[mac]

That does sound a bit low. I don't know about my car.

Are you sure yolu have 10 to 1 or just 10 to 1 pistons? Might have big chambers or ??????

I would be a little uneasy about putting in a cam that the guy won't tell me what is going on with it. It would likely be OK, that just doesn't sit well with me. Does he at least publish and IC? I guess the cam could be measured when you get it. I'm not trying to talk you out of it as much as I'm against secret crap. I'm sure he (Bob K right?) doesn't want a trick to get out but it can be measured I'm certain.

it's a 440 .040 over with flat KB pistons with small valve reliefs, zero deck. heads are stock 452 castings that cc'd at 86. with that combo it figures out to be just over 10:1

Bob (mr six pack) doesn't provide the grinding specs but gives the install specs per your vehicle. (engine, trans, gears, tires) and the recommended springs and lifters and jetting guidelines.

 

[ACME A12]

Mac:

Seems like you've been struggling with this for some time... Just a few thoughts:

Re-check the installation on your current Lunati cam. Buy your own degree wheel so you can do this independently... Your findings will pretty much dictate your next steps. If it is correct then it sounds like you need a cam change; if not then set it up correctly and see how it acts.

As for the Lunatis falling on their face that sounds like a bunch of horse-puckey to me. A camshaft performs based on its design attributes; not the name of its manufacturer. I don't recall the specific P/N you have, but if it is one of the Voodoos then I'm even more staunch in my defense of the brand name as Harold Bookshire designed those and they are proven to make more power than a comparable Comp XE (I have two cars with XEs - I'm no Hater - just so you know...). The Lunati Voodoos are one of the few brands that actually factor in the Chrysler lifter diameter instead of just slapping you on the a$$ and giving you a chevy cam. I posted a link on here previously that had the demonstrative graph and a Q&A with Harold himself if you care to search for it.

Bob K's camshaft works. There are too many cars running in the pure stock drags that just fly with this cam for this point to be argued. Sucks that he doesn't publish the numbers - but that's his call; he's done all of the leg work over the past 20 years so I guess we all just have to build a bridge and get over it... My machine shop is planning on dissecting mine so we might have those numbers relatively soon for what it is worth... If your Lunati is installed correctly then maybe you should give this cam a try. I recall from your previous thread that the MRSIXPACK.3 with a set of 1.6 rockers should have about the same lift as your Lunati - but you'd be giving up a litttle on the bottom end (per Bob K himself) so you may want to forego this initially since you have the 3.54s in your car.

As for the heads - your call. Take somecarguys advise and have them checked out before installing if you put them in play - not much out there is truly bolt-on - I've even heard stories about Eddys having visible space between the valve and seat right out of the box...

Keep us posted on your plans and your progress.

Ray

 

[Big John]

I don't know what to tell you about the cam selection..... Others here have more experience with that.

I do second Acme's recomendation that you check the cam install... with your own stuff. A degree wheel isn't that expensive and neither is a dial indicator. If that's a problem, I'll lend you the stuff to do it.

As far as the heads... well, the stealth heads have had mixed reviews. The bad stuff seems to be coming from the "offshore parts" bashers and people that can break a steel ball in a sand box with a rubber hammer. The good stuff.. well... I don't know either.... I think you need to judge for yourself.

Having them on the shelf is a big plus for their use. I have heard real bad things about the locks and retainers failing though. At a minimum, I would replace those with something better and have the heads gone through by someone that knows what they are doing.

 

[mac]

i have been gathering alot of the tools needed for this project over the winter. i have all the parts gaskets and upgradded goodies for the heads (after reading all the posts at moparts). it's always that burning question of trying to do the right thing once instead of 2 or 3 times. if the cam is changed it will be the 3rd cam in less than 10,000 miles. another reason for suspecting the cam timing is it was recommended (by the friend) to use one of those timing chain sets with the 9 keyways. so that just adds more to the mix.

 

[ACME A12]

it was recommended (by the friend) to use one of those timing chain sets with the 9 keyways. so that just adds more to the mix.

That just allows you to dial the cam in; you have to use either an adjustable timing gear set-up or offset cam keys to affect the necessary camshaft phasing changes. Six to one / half dozen to the other. If your buddy knows how to degree a camshaft and accurately read any changes made at the timing gear then that is not part of your problem.

Use the intake centerline method when you check the Lunati and or install the MRSIXPACK.3 cam. Easiest method for those of us that are not professional engine builders.

What was the first camshaft and what necessitated changing it out?

Ray

 

[mcmopar]

When we installed my Comp XE275HL-10 we degreed it in (110 degree c/l installed at 106 degrees per their instructions) and wouldn't you know - the timing marks on the sprockets were "straight up" with one another.

 

[69hemibeep]

Most all the cams Ive installed have been straight up even after checking with a wheel. Most of the time your double checking the manufacturer or getting tricky :yesnod:

 

[mac]

all of what you are saying i completely agree with. the mistake i made was putting it in the hands of a person who talks a great game instead of doing it my self. the car right now is setup with the degree wheel and set to TDC on #1. that at least matches the mark on the timing tape, but that was one of the pieces i did myself. watch me set myself up for the big ah ha moment and it will be set right. friday i will borrow the dial indicator from work and see what i get. i am actually hoping it is set wrong.

 

[SomeCarGuy]

Summit has a degree wheel kit that is pretty slick and cheap.

I have used mine a TON. Has dial indicator and stops etc. Pretty sweet.

 

[moparmoose3]

i agree with mcmopar. i was concerned with my cam(which is one step bigger than mcmopars) but when i installed it the timing marks were straight up. my son's friend was having trouble with his cam install and couldn't get any power out of it. i told them to tear the motor down again and install the timing marks straight up and it cured their problems also. just a thought. give it a try. it just takes a little more labor and if it doesn't work for you then you'll know for sure. :drive: :banana:

 

[ACME A12]

Bob K's camshaft works. There are too many cars running in the pure stock drags that just fly with this cam for this point to be argued. Sucks that he doesn't publish the numbers - but that's his call; he's done all of the leg work over the past 20 years so I guess we all just have to build a bridge and get over it... My machine shop is planning on dissecting mine so we might have those numbers relatively soon for what it is worth... If your Lunati is installed correctly then maybe you should give this cam a try. I recall from your previous thread that the MRSIXPACK.3 with a set of 1.6 rockers should have about the same lift as your Lunati - but you'd be giving up a litttle on the bottom end (per Bob K himself) so you may want to forego this initially since you have the 3.54s in your car.

Ray

Big John/Mac:

I sent you two a PM.

Ray