1969 Roadrunner 383 Rebuild

[JJRJR]

Hello all, new here. I just got a 69 Runner and mechanic pulling the motor and we're gonna tear it down to the block. I'm sure this question comes up a lot, so sorry for being redundant. Depending on what article you read or who you speak to, they all have the answer to get the most HP from the 383.

I recently read an artilce in an old Mopar Muscle mag called "383 Resto to Rad." Essentially it gives the part numbers for certain Hooker Headers, Mopar Performance M-1 Intake and a big Competition Cam to get dyno results of 455 HP up from the stock 335 HP.

My mechanic says he wants to bore .030 over, do a 3 angle valve job, and rebuild the entire motor top to bottom so I have my choice of what to do while it's apart. I'm looking for some real "expert" advice as to what high-performance parts to put into the motor to maximize the HP of the 383.

If you guys can maybe lead me down the right path? Is there something that can/should be done to the heads for more HP? What is the best cam/intake/carb combo for max HP? I've heard the .030 over bore will get the cylinders clean but not much for increasing HP. This will NOT be a daily driver car, but want something that I can drive often enough to have fun and teach the wife how to drive it. LOL.

By the way, my buddy just got a 2010 Camaro SS with 426 HP from factory and he did some mods that he says gives him about 460 HP or so, needless to say, I would love my old school muscle to teach the new school a thing or two in the quarter mile. My preference is low end speed over balls out highway speed; can't really do 150 MPH on I-95. Any help appreciated. Thanks, John.

 

[A31PKG]

Hey John, all good questions. You'll likely get several takes on this from the folks here. Here's mine: Are you going for a stock type resto with a lean towards performance? Or an all out hot rod? Somewhere in between? The article you refer to is a good one because they supported it with real dyno results. If all the block needs is .030" to clean up, I'd say stay with that (BTW a .030 over bore only gets you to about 387 cubes +/-). Anyway, the two areas that really wake up a MOPAR big block are air flow, and balancing. There are others, but if you focus on getting air/fuel mixture and exhaust in & out of the combustion chamber, you'll have a screamer. Port, polish, 3-angle, with hardened seats are all good ideas. Balancing is just good practice. Make sure you give the machine shop the flywheel and clutch cover too when balancing. The stock 383 pistons were flat tops with 10: 1 compression ratio. I like keeping the compression ratio at or near stock for a driver, so 10 to 1 is just fine. You will need high test at the pump, maybe mix in a little Cam II now & then. Cams are a discussion that can take days to sort through. I did a bunch of research for my car, and decided on the Comp 268 XE. I used their springs & lifters too. I love it, but there are others out there. I've heard good stuff about Hughes (they make/have lots of cool MOPAR engine stuff), also the cam made by Bob Karakashian is supposed to be the bomb in a relatively stock build. He's known as "Mr Six Pack" and has a wealth of MOPAR performance knowledge - nice guy too. Although his cam is primarily targeted for the 440, I hear it performs equally well in the 383. Of course there are the subjects of tuning and carbs, ignition, etc.... There are lots of ways to go, and the other guys will chime in, this is just my :cents: ... Good luck with it!

 

[mcmopar]

I used that same article as a bench mark for my 383 rebuild when I had the engine out of the car restoring the engine bay. I deviated a bit, though. Mine already had a set of 11:1 TRW's under a set of 915 '67 closed chamber heads. These were swapped for a set of worked 452's (2.14/1.81 valves and a porting job). I went with tti 1-7/8" headers and a 3" dia. exhaust system, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, 750 Holley vac. sec. carb modded to 4 corner idle, CAT 1.6 aluminum roller rockers, ProForm pushrods and a Comp Cams XE275HL-10 cam. Comp has 3 cams in the HL-10 family; the 275, the 285 and the 295. I chose the 275 due to the fact I have factory a/c and I didn't want to get too wild. The 1.6 roller rockers provide .560" lift (up from the .525" lift rating of the cam with 1.5 ratio rockers) and it runs like a beast. In fact I am going to tone it down some in the near future as fuel economy is not too good at 11 - 13 on the highway with a 4 speed and 3.55 gears.
The idle is quite favorable even though the setup only pulls 9.5 - 10 inches of vacuum at idle. It is quite stinky though. It seems to be a trait of this family of cams. Go figure. My jetting is right on the money as is my idle misture setup but at idle it seems to be running a rich condition. I believe it is due to the cam's design in that it allows some of the intake charge to get sucked out the exhaust port. It's a great performance cam - but you'll need 3.55 gears or better to get the most out of it at low (around town) cruising speeds.
X2 on Bob Karakashian. I've spoken with him a couple of times and he has been very helpful. He recommends that if his cam is used in a 383 that it be advanced 2 degrees during installation in order to improve low-end response. I'm going to be building a "pure stock" 383 in the near future and am strongly considering using one of his cams.

 

[JJRJR]

Guys, thanks so much for the thoughful replies. I guess I'm so new at this game, unfortunately I don't really know what all the numbers mean (lift, vacuum, etc.) The guy doing the rebuild isn't really a "perfomance" rebuild guy, so I need to let him know what I want in the motor and what, if any, mods I want to make to the heads, cylinders, etc.

Basically, I would be happy (I think) with 450 HP or above and it seems that the article I refer to gets in there on the Dyno. While I don't anticipate driving the car daily, I want to be able to drive it as much as I can; weekends, etc. My main concern is what people keep saying about the cam. What do people mean when they talk about it being "stinky"? I'm also concerned with the single vs dual plan intake?? My preference would be low end speed rather than the ability to hold 130 MPH on the highway. Of course I don't want to be crazy RPM's at 70 or 80 MPH either. I'm not too concerned with gas mileage as I won't us it that often.

I don't think I want to spend $$ redoing heads or buying different head, etc. would like to use the originals. If you guys can recommend a set up (maybe the article is the way to go???) that accomplishes this goal, that would be great. Ultimately, I'd like to chat with someone locally in a speed shop that knows Mopars and see if he'll help pick the right parts. Is the Comp Cam recommended in the article too much cam for what I want? Is the Mopar Performance M1 intake (single plane) the right way to go? What about Edelbrock products? They have combos that seem to go together as well.


Again thanks, any thoughts are much appreciated. Best, John.

 

[A31PKG]

Somebody on this forum (Ray maybe?) recently posted an article by Hot Rod that compared the MOPAR big block manifolds... I'll try and dig it up and post a link, unless someone beats me to it.

You may want to think about a stroker kit too. Great economical way to boost power. There are a few places that offer these kits ready to drop in. Crank, pistons, rods, bearings, rings, all packaged and ready to go. You may pay a little more for balancing. 440 Source is one of them, and they have a good web-site explaining their kits.

Keep us updated!

 

[JJRJR]

Just checked out the 440 Source Web Site. Sure will give them a call. They have 383 Kits for $2K which seems pretty good to get a whole new bottom end with pistons, etc. I guess all that's needed then is the right intake, cam and carb set up? I REALLY don't want to have to drop another couple grand on new heads.

Will my stock 383 heads work with the stroker kit? Assuming I use the Mopar Muscle article as a template AND add the stroker kit to that, I wonder what the HP rating would be then. They have 2 kits for the 383, one takes it to 496 cubes the other to 438, which essentially turns the motor into a 440.

If the Comp Cam, Hooker Headers, and Mopar Performance M1 intake gets the stock 335 HP 383 to 455 Dyno HP, wonder what the 383 to 438 Stroker Kit would put on top of that?? Not sure I'm thinking this right, but I think the 440's had 390 HP stock. So if the Kit turns the 383 into a 440 (390 HP), and the Mopar Muscle template added 117 HP to the stock 383, will it get 507 HP?? Can't be that simple.

I can actually hear the money disappearing. LOL.

Thanks, John.

 

[A31PKG]

Here it is... It was mcmopar that posted it... (sorry Ray!) Good stuff...


http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp ... brock.html

 

[JJRJR]

OK, how does this set up sound?

.030 over
3 angle valve job, ported and polished
Mopar Performance M1 intake
Comp Cam XE285HL-10 Kit (includes chain, lifters and springs)
383 to 438 Stroker Kit
Hooker Headers

That should get me near 500 HP? Will these components work together with stock 383 heads? Are any other mods needed if I go with the Stroker Kit or is it a drop in item?

Thanks all.

John

 

[mcmopar]

The intake comparison can be found here:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0712_mopar_intake_manifold_comparo/weiand_holley.html
See pages 4, 5, 6 & 7.
"Stinky" refers to a rich idle condition. The exhaust smells like the engine is running too rich. It can actually make your eyes water if you get a good dose of it without some fresh air.
That cam in the article is quite a hoss in a 383 but fine for a 440. The one I'm running (smallest in the series) seems to be just right for a stout 383. You'll need to do some head work by having the the valve guides cut down and running teflon valve seals though. The cam in the article is going to make good power in the upper rpm range - that is why they chose the M-1 single plane intake. If you want power in the lower rpm range you need to get a cam and intake combo that will work well at moderate rpm's instead of at the high end of the rpm range.
The all-around best intake for a 383 in the 400-500 hp range has been proven to be the Edelbrock Performer RPM in test after test. It has great low-rpm response as well as excellent high rpm power. It is a dual plane intake. Single plane intakes usually work well in the upper rpm range but lose out in the low rpm arena. The only single plane intakes I would recommend would be the tried and true Edelbrock Torker and the Holley Street Dominator. The problems with the Torker are difficulty in installation (due to the inner hold down bolt locations in relation to the intake runners) and an rpm ceiling of around 5500 rpm. That is fine for a torquey 440 but the 383 needs to be buzzed to 5900-6200 for max power. For about towning and highway use the Torker is a decent manifold, though not as good as the Performer RPM or DP-4B in my opinion (I've run them all and currently have the Performer RPM on my car now). The other dual plane intake alternative I would recommend is the old Edelbrock DP-4B. It is not in production any more but can be picked up for between $50-$100 on the used market.
You should get a good valve/port job for best performance. I know a guy up here in Orlando that has done 2 sets of heads for me and has done Ray's (ACME A12) heads for his 6BBL car. Jim (my buddy) does great work. If you want to contact him let me know and I'll PM you his email address. He does great work at an affordable price. He has been doing cylinder heads for years and has a '70 Challenger 440 6 Pack NHRA B/C stocker and does work for many different makes and models but specializes in Mopars. He'll be helping out with my Pure Stock build. His Challenger currently runs low 10's and it's a Stock class (not Super Stock) car.
Your setup sounds decent but I would not go with the MP M-1 intake myself unless you want a high rpm engine (which it sounds like you don't). If you want low speed pull go with the Edelbrock Performer RPM and a 750 Holley carb with either vac. secondaries and a quick change secondary spring pod for ease of tuning or a double pumper if you have a 4 speed or a stout automatic. You'll need 3.55, 3.91 or 4.10 gears, plus a Sure Grip for the rear end. Add the HD Hemi/440 rear suspension springs while you are at it.
Remember, your entire setup has to be thought out. It is the combination that will make your car run great or not so great. Too many guys plop in a big cam and headers and expect the car to run hard and when it doesn't they can't figure out why. If your car is an automatic you'll need to go through the trans and add some goodies (shift kit, internals, etc.) along with a 2800 rpm stall converter and a good external transmission cooler to help it survive. If it's a 4 speed you should consider a good SFI approved flywheel and a clutch that can handle the extra power. Don't forget to inspect/rebuild the brakes as necessary, too. Going fast is great - but you have to stop safely, too. It gets expensive in a hurry.

If you want to check out a video of my car idling in the driveway go here:
http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g271/mcmopar/My 69 Road Runner/?action=view&current=Movie.mp4

 

[JJRJR]

That is one amazing Runner my friend. The green we were looking at though looks different. Is yours a 383? Love the tan interior too, but I'll likely go with black. What HP rating have you gotten in yours?

Thanks

John

 

[mcmopar]

Thanks. It's just a driver and has more than its share of flaws but it photographs well and makes people smile at the Old Town cruise whenever I can get down there.
Yeah - it's a 383 that has been hotted up quite a bit. I haven't had it dyno'd but it is putting out a substantial amount more horsepower than stock. I would estimate something very similar to the Hot Rod magazine numbers since it is set up similar to the magazine's engine and I have a good set of heads on it (280 cfm intake, 220 cfm exhaust) with 2.14/1.81 valves and a 3" exhaust system. It will definitely turn the 275/60R-15 tires on the back! The only thing I have against it is the lack of cruising range. I'd like a bit more than the 11.5 mpg I'm getting on the highway.

BTW here is my buddy's Challenger. He's on this forum as classracer but doesn't get to check in all that much. We've been friends a long time and I can vouch for the fact that he really does know his stuff.
[attachment=0:1y5lzahh]Jim's Challenger.jpg[/attachment:1y5lzahh]

 

[JJRJR]

Hey John, was just re-reading some posts while putting together my engine system list, and I see you have a bud named Jim that does a nice job on the heads for the 383? Maybe I can reach out to him??

What is the typical cost to have that work done and does it produce HP results?
Best,

John

 

[SomeCarGuy]

Be careful on what pistons you use. A lot of the shelf stuff makes for a real low comp 383, or a real high comp 383. The pump gas max CR seems to be hard to get with a shelf piston.

IMO, that is important enough to spec a custom piston. A few hundred more now and you will be a lot happier for years to come. More power, better MPG, better throttle response.

 

[JJRJR]

Thanks for the tip. I've been wondering how it is I go about knowing what parts to use to be sure I'm getting 10:1 real CR. I mentioned it to my engine builder and he said ok he'll check it, but I'm in the dark as to how this all comes together. I don't want to get the heads, pistons, gaskets, etc. only to find out I'm at 9 to 1.

Thanks,

John

Be careful on what pistons you use. A lot of the shelf stuff makes for a real low comp 383, or a real high comp 383. The pump gas max CR seems to be hard to get with a shelf piston.

IMO, that is important enough to spec a custom piston. A few hundred more now and you will be a lot happier for years to come. More power, better MPG, better throttle response.

 

[SomeCarGuy]

If you know some of your specs, many places have online calculators that you plug them into and it tells what you have. Need to know the pistons, head chamber cc, head gasket thickness, etc.

Might be worth a call to a piston maker to discuss. If you are running aftermeakt heads, that much will give them a lot to go on. Also, most likely you will be running the now standard .039 head gasket. If you are running stock heads, the chamber size is well knwon, of course I have forgotten it. So even then, they will have an idea of what to tell you.

 

[mcmopar]

Since you are planning on running the Edelbrock heads there are 2 different types.
One type has 84cc combustion chanbers and the other type has 88cc chambers. Use the smaller chamber heads (84cc) for higher compression and the larger chamber heads (88cc) for lower compression.