69 RR Brake issues - Help needed

[a6t9vette]

Haven't been around for a while as haven't really had that much time for the car/toys with 3 young kids. The few times I did get to take the car out last year things just didn't feel right, I noticed after a ride (even a short one) that the front wheels were basically locked up (very hard to rotate), but after the car cooled off things would spin freely. Thought I might be dragging shoes, but loosening things up didn't help, same issue. Anyways it was time for some new brake stuff so that was my winter project. So here's where we are:

Car: 69RR, Manual Brakes, Drums all 4 corners.
Redone: New Master, New Wheel cylinders x4, All new lines, hard and soft, new springs etc for the shoes. All 4 corners adjusted to so they spin about 2 times before stopping. Blead with speed bleeders all for wheels starting furthest from master and working closer....
Not done: didn't replace shoes as all seemed to have plenty of life, didn't replace prop valve, but did give a good cleaning off the vehicle, flush etc.

So after finally got a change to the car out today to see how everything felt. Slow speed, brakes felt good, stopped good, no pulling. Higher speed, felt ok, but did pull a bit to the left. I drove around for ~15 min came home, pulled right in the garage, jacked the front, and sure enough both front wheels were very hard to turn. So now what? I'm lost, and dragging the wheels makes the car feel like a slug. Any advice, please help, wheel bearings, etc????

 

[Big John]

It could be a few things.

The first one that comes to mind is the common problem of the shoes being installed wrong. Small shoe goes towards the front of the car.
Next is shoes catching on the backing plates. A little cleaning and lube goes a long way.
The return springs could be shot.

Most likely it's something in the hydraulics though. I have seen on other cars where the brake hoses break down internally (usually from hanging a caliper off them LOL) and won't release the pressure. The other thing could be the master cylinder not releasing the pressure.

I would check the hydraulics by backing off the bleeder when the tire is hard to turn. If it releases, then the problem lies somewhere in that system.

 

[Ranger]

He said he replaced all the lines "soft and hard".
When was the last time the bearings where pulled and packed? Is it possible they are dry, heating up and expanding, causing a slight drag? Just shooting in the dark here.

 

[Big John]

He said he replaced all the lines "soft and hard".

Yep... a good reason to suspect it's a bad hose.

 

[Basketcase]

and just because the parts are new (master,wheel cylinders) doesn't mean they are good.
my first thought on the pulling, is maybe the right brake isn't adjusted as tight as the left?

 

[mahoney0_00_3]

big john is right the return springs pulls the brakes back and retracts them/is it all 4 or just the front?

 

[a6t9vette]

I'd like to think its not a bad hose since they were just replaced and being I was having the issue with the old hoses, same with the springs (return) on the pads. If my luck is that bad Im in trouble, LOL. Wheel bearings haven't been packed in a while, so Im sure they could use a bit of grease. I will check the orientation of the pads to ensure they are correct. Good idea to break a bleeder with them hot and see if that releases the pressure.

I initially thought it was the master not releaseing the pressure, but changing it had no affect either.

The prob is for sure with the front 2, I didn't check the rear this time, was a bit pissed when the fronts were doing it again..... and I don't recall if they were holding last year.

 

[moparmonk]

Is there a chance that the wheel adjusters got swapped from side to side? Is that possible?

 

[a6t9vette]

Is there a chance that the wheel adjusters got sw
apped from side to side? Is that possible?

Not sure how that would matter? If I adjust until there is drag wouldn't matter which way I installed them. Or am I missing something?

 

[Basketcase]

IIRC....the adjusters work when you move the car in reverse and use the brakes.....so, if you have an adjuster on backwards, it would adjust the brake tighter when applying the brakes.

 

[a6t9vette]

Understand, but correct me if I'm wrong but my 69 with HD drums didn't have adjusters (other then the star wheels). I don't think and HD did in 69. Or at least that's how it looks in my shop manual. In any case there isn't any additional adjusting hardware on the car.

 

[A12]

I had an almost exact similar issue with my '68 road runner's front drums that would drag after I drove it. After finding the side of the shoes contacting the backing plates I loosened the wheel bearing nuts and the drum would spin freely, the problem was the wheel bearings were so loose that I wouldn't dare attempt to drive the car with the bearings adjusted that loose except up and down the road if front of the house (way out in the country). Then I had to figure out what was touching and how to find the problem and how to shim the spindle to be able to adjust the wheel bearings correctly..............I eventually did figure it out but I spent literally weeks up to that point with grinding and filing the sides of the brake shoes, two or three different manufacture 11" drums, a tube of "high-spot-blue", and so many on and off of the drums I think I wore out the lug nuts and studs.

Try just loosening the wheel bearings and see if that frees the drums up........if that does it then I'm here to start this whole shim and grind and digging for all of the photos I took of the chase to find how I fixed it......but I think it was two thin shims to space the drums out board of the shoes IIRC?

 

[Basketcase]

you're correct, they don't have the self adjusters....but some may have added it.

 

[A12]

Here are some photos from the time I was having similar issues with the front brakes on my '68 road runner......just random but it may give you things to investigate.

 

[A12]

considerable difference in the same 11" drums spec'd for the car and the original

 

[A12]

high-spot blue where the shoes made contact

 

[A12]

Original drums (springs) and replacement drum



part number and yes MADE IN USA!

 

[A12]

I think after everything I had to add a thin shim at the arrows to move the drum outward so I could run the correct wheel bearing tension then the brakes worked great and never pulled. This was a few years ago (maybe 2003 or 2004) so I'm not clear at this point but if you try a few things with the wheel bearing tension maybe some of it will come back to me?View attachment 8958

 

[A12]

I have discs on the GTX (thank goodness) but for sure I'll be going through this again with the A12 and the Dart :sorrow:

 

[CBR]

A couple things come to mind that haven't been mentioned directly: A piece of foreign material in the brake system that never got cleaned out could cause such a problem, unlikely but possible. The other is that Heavy Duty brakes (11"X3" on the front) do not have automatic adjustors and need to be adjusted manually. Back them off and see if the problem still occurs. If it does check for binding inside the drum. if that is good then you would be more likely to have a bearing issue than brake issue. Other than that, it sounds like taking it all apart from m/cyl on down and carefully cleaning and checking everything for proper assembly and then retesting the system to find out if it works properly is what has to be done.... a real PITA!