Engine problems again, advise needed

[nicanor]

I posted this probably last year, thought it was fixed but:

I heard the piston noise that they say is expected from using forged pistons and after a little warm up the noise was gone.

But when I first started the car and I could hear the pistons, then I stepped on the clutch pedal and could hear a bad bearing noise. Thought it was a throw out bearing but we put everything new into the clutch. After the car warmed up most of that noise went away also but if you depressed the clutch a couple of inches you could feel the clutch pedal vibrating.

So today we put it on a lift and had someone sit in the car and started the car while we were underneath the car and removed the clutch/flywheel inspection panel beefore starting. When we started the car there was no noise coming from the clutch area at all and watching the throw out bearing noting that it was operating properly. We heard noise coming from the oil pan area. It sounded like bad bearings but after the car warmed up, the noise went away for the most part. When we depressed the clutch the vibration was still there but the noise pretty much disappeared.

The engine builder still says its still only the pistons but I tried to explain the second noise and completely different noise but he said it couldn't be the bearing making the noise.

We pulled the oil pan and removed almost all the bearings. Don't know how to get the last bearing out against the engine rear by the rear seal without removing the transmission.

The bearnings all had score marks where the brass was showing and some pretty deep grooves. One bearing looked bad and as if was oval. The top of both sides of the bearing had no damage. As you moved down from the top 1/2 inch of the bearing the wear got worse and worse and was really bad the bottom part of the bearing. Oil pressure was fine. Another engine builder said the bearings might have been on too tight.

Any help or good questions to ask the new engine builder would be helpful.

Thank you,
Barry

 

[moparchris]

I hate saying this, but it needs to be said. Basically the engine needs to be rebuilt again. It sounds like your engine builder did a poor job of measuring the clearances or it was really dirty (metal shavings from machining) or it was starved for oil. So its back to square one, pull the engine and rebuild it again. I build all my own engines since I was 14 years old. I didn't have any fancy tools and didn't have any more knowledge than what I read in magazines. The one thing that I know for sure is that it is my motor and I take the most care possible to assemble it right. The next hurdle is finding a machinist worth his salt. I take my time and measure eveything possible and correct anything when it comes up. I would bet that the engine builder didn't bother to clean the block after machining, which is quite popular. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but pull it out and get it done right and dont look back.

 

[69hemibeep]

If the machinest says he cleaned all the parts do it again :yesnod:

 

[A31PKG]

One word: Plastigauge

 

[Big John]

If the machinest says he cleaned all the parts do it again :yesnod:

Yep, the crank for my flathead was supposed to be clean, but the oil holes were completely plugged! And I've been using this same guy for many years with no problems!

 

[Big John]

One word: Plastigauge

Yep!!

 

[nicanor]

Thank you for the feedback. We have pulled the bearing out while the engine was still installed in the car. Hopefully tomorrow the new bearing will arrive.

The person replacing the bearings is going to use the pasticgauge. I was just wondering if the noise in the engine while depressing the clutch was comong from rod, main or thrust bearings. The noise does go away after a few minutes but when you depress the clutch you still feel the vibrations/throbbing of the clutch pedal.

The person who bilt the engine said the noise and the symptons of the clutch have nothing to do with the bearings. He says the noise is radiating down from the forged pistons warming up. But the noise in the oil pan sounds bad. The bearing we took off had deep score marks and you can see the brass some not as bad and the one seem elongated.

I'll flush the engine again to make sure but hopefully the bottom end noise goes away when we change the bearings.

Thanks again,
Barry

 

[4spd69RR]

I have to agree with MoparChris, you may need to tear the engine back down. If you have that kind of wear/damage on the bearing something is a miss. It definitely sounds like there is something out of balance just replacing the one bearing may not remove the problem.

 

[69hemibeep]

Was that a complete or running engine or disassembled when you got it ? Just wondering if the main caps go to that block. :nachos:

 

[A31PKG]

Is the flywheel friction surface perpendicular to the crank centerline? Any runout - even a few thousandths - will cause the pressure plate to wobble as the crank rotates. This could cause a pulsing pedal.

 

[jays69bird]

I had a friend years ago that had a Ford truck that he paid to have the motor rebuilt,it developed a knock right away,I was laid off at the time so I took a look at it.The bearing were shot,they looked liked they had 300,00 miles on em,just what you described,wore right down to the brass, I felt bad for him,so I redid the motor and cut him a break on the price.After a good cleaning I always lube the bearings,with white grease,it stays put so if the engine sits a while before installation you still have lube on the bearings,and it liquifies on start up.I also prime my motors before first start up.Always use plastigauge to check clearance on the rods and mains. Good Luck with it.

 

[moparchris]

Thank you for the feedback. We have pulled the bearing out while the engine was still installed in the car. Hopefully tomorrow the new bearing will arrive.

The person replacing the bearings is going to use the pasticgauge. I was just wondering if the noise in the engine while depressing the clutch was comong from rod, main or thrust bearings. The noise does go away after a few minutes but when you depress the clutch you still feel the vibrations/throbbing of the clutch pedal.

The person who bilt the engine said the noise and the symptons of the clutch have nothing to do with the bearings. He says the noise is radiating down from the forged pistons warming up. But the noise in the oil pan sounds bad. The bearing we took off had deep score marks and you can see the brass some not as bad and the one seem elongated.

I'll flush the engine again to make sure but hopefully the bottom end noise goes away when we change the bearings.

Thanks again,
Barry

I'll bet my money that you will be doing this again. Not the way to go here. That motor will self destruct in 5K or less. :cents:

 

[nicanor]

Don't totally disagree that the engine might get less then 3,000 miles on it, but at about 50 miles a month average, it will take about three years to see if the bearings fail. Give me a chance to save the money to try and have the engine built again.

Thanks to all who have given me advise,
Barry