Help! RR starts...but won't crank up again

[w8kbrder]

Hey guys,

RR starts up with one push of the gas pedal at cold start. Idles great. Runs great. Drives great. Replaced with electronic ignition, new ignition switch, dizzy, etc. Once it warms up and I shut it off, it won't start up again. No spark! What gives? Any ideas?

 

[earlyrides]

We need more info.
Does it turn over?
How do you know there is no spark?
What did you test?
Did you pull the coil wire out of the distributor and put it close to the block and watch while someone turned the engine over with the key and you didnt see any spark?

 

[4spd69RR]

Sounds like your coil might be getting to hot. How old is your coil? Check your coil resistance, it should be about 2 ohms.

 

[george68hemirr]

how is the ballast resistor.....is it burning your hand hot when it shuts down??

 

[w8kbrder]

how is the ballast resistor.....is it burning your hand hot when it shuts down??

Basically once the engine warms up, if you turn it off, it won't crank. Let it cool down after an hour or so and it fires up again. Otherwise, it just turns over but doesn't fire up. I did take a towel and put ice cubes in it...put it around the coil to cool it down. Car started up again fine. But when that coil is hot, engine won't fire up...only turns over. The coil is hot as hell only after running the car for 5 min or so. So I'm guessing I have the wrong coil for the electronic ignition setup I have.

 

[69hemibeep]

Your coil is breaking down usually do to heat, you had better turn the key to the on position and see how much voltage your getting to the coil. Off the top of my head it should be around 6 volts, if its to much you have the wrong ballast resistor

 

[w8kbrder]

Your coil is breaking down usually do to heat, you had better turn the key to the on position and see how much voltage your getting to the coil. Off the top of my head it should be around 6 volts, if its to much you have the wrong ballast resistor

Awesome. Thank you so much for this info. I will be checking it today.

 

[moparmonk]

I saw that you mentioned it also would not crank after a warm shut down. Check to see your starter relay is grounded good. Automatic or Standard? I think the yellow wire coming through the fire wall going to the relay is the +12volts to activate the relay (from the switch) and the other small terminal needs to see ground somehow. Automatic cars get a ground through the center pin of the neutral safety switch center pin. I am not really sure how the the manuals work (gonna find out though!) but I am sure it is the same. If you cant find it, try grounding the opposite terminal from the yellow wire. This way the wiring and neutral saftey switches will be eliminated to help isolate the issue. I hope this has not confused you as it sounds choppy, but ask more if needed. Give us feedback when you get it! Kudos to the others referencing the coil, voltage and ballast resistor as I think George, 4sp69RR, and 69HemiBeep nailed it for a warm no run condition!

 

[w8kbrder]

I saw that you mentioned it also would not crank after a warm shut down. Check to see your starter relay is grounded good. Automatic or Standard? I think the yellow wire coming through the fire wall going to the relay is the +12volts to activate the relay (from the switch) and the other small terminal needs to see ground somehow. Automatic cars get a ground through the center pin of the neutral safety switch center pin. I am not really sure how the the manuals work (gonna find out though!) but I am sure it is the same. If you cant find it, try grounding the opposite terminal from the yellow wire. This way the wiring and neutral saftey switches will be eliminated to help isolate the issue. I hope this has not confused you as it sounds choppy, but ask more if needed. Give us feedback when you get it! Kudos to the others referencing the coil, voltage and ballast resistor as I think George, 4sp69RR, and 69HemiBeep nailed it for a warm no run condition!

Hey monk,

Its an automatic. Right now I've just been trying to get this thing running good. Then moving onto bodywork and cosmetics. I haven't had time to change out the ground wires. They need to be changed. Here are some pics of what it currently setup...

 

[droptop]

I don't know it there is any thing to this, but I have been told that the wire connectors need to be on the bottom so they are covered with the oil inside of the coil. When you put on the new coil try to turn them to the downward position.

 

[w8kbrder]

I don't know it there is any thing to this, but I have been told that the wire connectors need to be on the bottom so they are covered with the oil inside of the coil. When you put on the new coil try to turn them to the downward position.

That makes sense. I may try that. Or I may just order a completly different coil & resistor.....maybe Accel...which is what I should have done in the first place. I ended up buying some cheaper stuff just to see if the motor would run good before I dumped any time/money into cosmetics.

 

[Basketcase]

hmmm....never heard that. I've always had the terminals up top so they are easy to get. And IIRC...on my '85 slant six D100, the coil was upright.

 

[moparmonk]

Thanks for the great Pics W8ker! Something else jumped out at me! The 69 and before cars had an internally grounded alternator that had only one brush. They could be converted to the 70 and up style 2 terminal deal but also would require the new style regulator. It appears you still have the old style... with the electronic ignition conversion. This I am told, is a big no-no! The electronic ignition required a much more stable voltage for it to be consistant and not the old heat up and cool style regulator which your pic shows. I got mine when I put it together in the late 80's. Losing the points gained me 2-3 miles a gallon and the ability for it to run in the rain which it would not do until the engine got heat soaked. They are supposedly still available but I honestly have not seen them for awhile. I will snap a shot of it tonite and try and post what your looking for. Anyone else have anything on this? That may be something to look for too, but the other ideas are great places to start (no pun intended) too! Keep the info rolling!

 

[69hemibeep]

Actually this type of coil was designed to stand up and ma mopar laid them down, go figure.

 

[moparchris]

My DD El Camino had an MSD Blaster coil and it exploded! I then replaced it with a stock coil and it did it too! I checked voltage and it was 12 volts. After disassembling the wiring harness, someone had replaced the resistor wire with regular wire and it took its toll on the coil. I was under the impression that the MSD is supposed to run at 12 volts. I got it running again and it never did it again with the resistor wire in place but it wouldn't start with the key in the start position and a partially drained battery. Frustrating!!

 

[w8kbrder]

Thanks for the great Pics W8ker! Something else jumped out at me! The 69 and before cars had an internally grounded alternator that had only one brush. They could be converted to the 70 and up style 2 terminal deal but also would require the new style regulator. It appears you still have the old style... with the electronic ignition conversion. This I am told, is a big no-no! The electronic ignition required a much more stable voltage for it to be consistant and not the old heat up and cool style regulator which your pic shows. I got mine when I put it together in the late 80's. Losing the points gained me 2-3 miles a gallon and the ability for it to run in the rain which it would not do until the engine got heat soaked. They are supposedly still available but I honestly have not seen them for awhile. I will snap a shot of it tonite and try and post what your looking for. Anyone else have anything on this? That may be something to look for too, but the other ideas are great places to start (no pun intended) too! Keep the info rolling!

Hey Monk,

I'm trying to understand your response. So what you are saying is that I have the older style internally grounded alternator with a newer style regulator and this is a big no no? Or do I have an old style ballast resistor? Or an old style voltage regulator?

Just a bit confused on which of the above three you are referring to.

Obviously I'm having some kind of problem with the regulator as my coil gets super hot....almost to the point of burning your skin. I had a friend install the electronic ignition setup.

So I guess my question is...should I just buy a whole different voltage regulator? Ballast Resistor? Coil? All three?

 

[w8kbrder]

Thanks for the great Pics W8ker! Something else jumped out at me! The 69 and before cars had an internally grounded alternator that had only one brush. They could be converted to the 70 and up style 2 terminal deal but also would require the new style regulator. It appears you still have the old style... with the electronic ignition conversion. This I am told, is a big no-no! The electronic ignition required a much more stable voltage for it to be consistant and not the old heat up and cool style regulator which your pic shows.

Oh I just realized what you were referring to. You are saying everything was swapped out to be a new electronic ignition ...except for the voltage regulator....which needs to be upgraded to a newer style? Am I understanding that correctly? I was told that the voltage regulator would have nothing to do with it.

If I check the DC voltage at the positive side of the coil with the ignition switch turned "on", I get a reading of around 2. Shouldn't this be closer to 6? I checked to make sure the coil was not wired up backwards. Everything seems to be wired correctly. Sorry as I'm a newb to a lot of this electrical stuff. I'm not even sure if I'm reading it correctly!









Yes I need that metal tube for the gas line that runs from the carb down behind the alternator...this is only temporary while its sitting in the garage.

 

[w8kbrder]

After disassembling the wiring harness, someone had replaced the resistor wire with regular wire and it took its toll on the coil.

Hey chris...which resistor wire are you referring to?

 

[moparmonk]

Good evening W8ker! I hope your not getting to frustrated. Keep plugging away and you will get it. I know when I added the electronic ignition kit, it said I must have the new and updated solid state voltage regulator as it is much more stable. It provides a constant 13.8 with the motor running instead of the old style which was basically a resistor that heated and cooled varing the load on the field of the alternator to tell it to charge lightly, average, or heavy depending on voltage of the battery. The one brush deal is on the alternator which is the other end of the wire that hooks to the regulator. (70 and up have 2 field terminals on the alt while 69 and before only have one. Do not count the heavy wire that transfers current directly back to the battery). Now that you mention it, I almost think the ballast resistor had been changed when the kit was added. I will have to dig deep to find the paperwork on the electronic ignition kit to confirm that, however. I quickly checked ebay for an electronic regulator for the old style and they now have a old look but eletronic style. Neat! I have had the blue style for a long time with no problems but it just doesn't look very retro.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...hrysler+electronic+voltage+regulator&_sacat=0
I am not sure what to get for voltages as far as mesuring. You are on the right track for troubleshooting and I will try and measure something tommorrow night. Keep digging!

As you, I am still a bit confused. After it runs and warms up a bit, does it not start, or does it not crank? Those are totally different issues to solve. Let us all know! It does look as though your wiring on the starter relay is correct. Double check the yellow wire. It is not melted is it?

 

[moparmonk]

And another post now that I have looked closer at your pictures. I noticed you have an engine ground strap. (the 8-10 gauge wire that runs from the fire wall to the rear of the right cyl. head) Make sure the connection to the firewall is good. This is the ground that the body (and ignition switch) share with the engine. The motor is grounded well through the big wire from the negitive of the battery but being isolated by the rubber mounts of the engine and tranny doesn't do much for passing electricity (current). Also, when you were making your voltage mesurement with the voltmeter, it appears you were in current measurement mode. Your voltmeter should be in VDC position to measure the voltage at the coil. Think of voltage as the amount of water above the dam. Think of current as the amount of water flowing over the dam. And resistance, (IE the loads of the coil, ignition, lights, horn,etc.) as the size of the dam. Try your measurement again. Ask more if still confused.