Stroker Kit Comments??

[JJRJR]

Hey guys, just a question and a quick update. Always love the opinions of the guys that have been down this road before.

OK. I checked out the 383 Stroker Kits on 440 Source I think it's called. Seems to me (uneducated opinion) that for $2,000 I get a drop in solution to bring my 383 to a 440, or pretty close with the mild Stroker build. Since I'm rebuilding the engine, I want to do whatever I want while it's out of the car, so wanted to get opinions on the Stroker. With a few modifications, I'm going to follow the template given in the Mopar Muscle article about redoing a 383. They had Dyno results of 455 HP with their Cam, Header and Intake combo. What will the Stoker do for me in addition to that? Will I have to make other mods to make it work or is it plug-n-play? Thoughts?

Secondly, a good buddy of mine from the Navy has a body shop in Pittsburgh, PA. I live in South Florida, so will cost me probably $1,000 or so transport back and forth, but I would prefer having someone I know do the work. Never having done a restoration before, I'm wary of being ripped off by someone I don't know. I'll keep you all posted.

Thoughts on the Stroker much appreciated.

Thanks,

John

 

[mcmopar]

It isn't a "drop in" solution as you need to have the bearings radiused on the edges. I've heard that if you do not do certain things (like radiusing the bearings for one) that what you will have is a pile of junk before too long. The kits are good but you still have to do some machine work on the inside of the block to allow for crank counterwight clearance - unless they have fixed that issue. Do some research online to see what others are saying about these kits.

 

[moparchris]

I have built a few 383 to 431 motors. The unique part of this stroker is that you spend stroker money for cheap 440 power. One arguement is that your going to replace pistons and have the rods redone so its really not much more money to go the stroker. Its a tough decision but on the ones I have dynoed I found that a little cylinder head porting really wakes them up. There is also quite a bit of grinding in the crank area of the block. The kits that come from 440 source are "drop in" but I always buy them unbalanced since I checked the first one by sending it to my machine shop and it was so far off that I just pay my local shop to balance. That way I know its right. Whenever you go the stroker route, either you or your engine shop will mock this engine up more than a few times to get everything right. If your using a stock engine builder/remanufacturer I would say take it to a race engine shop. It will turn out much better. Clearance and the ins and outs of custom engines are the bread and butter of a good engine shop. If I could give you some advice I would say that with the stroker a set of heads or some ported 906s are a neccesary item otherwise it will drive like a dump truck with a 4500 rpm peak. Also cam and carb will make a huge difference. The cam they use in that article is too small for a 440 and more appropriate for a smaller 383. The last one i built was for a restored 68 Charger and it made 505hp and 500 ft/lbs and had great street manners (pump gas, great idle with lots of vacuum).

 

[mcmopar]

I have built a few 383 to 431 motors. The unique part of this stroker is that you spend stroker money for cheap 440 power. One arguement is that your going to replace pistons and have the rods redone so its really not much more money to go the stroker. Its a tough decision but on the ones I have dynoed I found that a little cylinder head porting really wakes them up. There is also quite a bit of grinding in the crank area of the block. The kits that come from 440 source are "drop in" but I always buy them unbalanced since I checked the first one by sending it to my machine shop and it was so far off that I just pay my local shop to balance. That way I know its right. Whenever you go the stroker route, either you or your engine shop will mock this engine up more than a few times to get everything right. If your using a stock engine builder/remanufacturer I would say take it to a race engine shop. It will turn out much better. Clearance and the ins and outs of custom engines are the bread and butter of a good engine shop. If I could give you some advice I would say that with the stroker a set of heads or some ported 906s are a neccesary item otherwise it will drive like a dump truck with a 4500 rpm peak. Also cam and carb will make a huge difference. The cam they use in that article is too small for a 440 and more appropriate for a smaller 383. The last one i built was for a restored 68 Charger and it made 505hp and 500 ft/lbs and had great street manners (pump gas, great idle with lots of vacuum).

I agree with Chris on all but the comment about the cam in the article being too small for a 440. My bud Jerry (Moparmoose3 here on the forum) ran that cam in a 440 with a set of worked heads by my buddy Jim, plus a set of Hooker Super Comps, a Holley Street Dominator and a 750 Holley with a compression ratio of just over 9:1. It was a real thumper with nice thumpy idle, and as Chris notes, decent street manners - with a set of 3.91 gears and a worked transmission. It never pulled more than 9 to 9.5" of vacuum at idle, though.
I've been running the smaller XE275HL-10 (rated at 231 int./237 exh. duration @ 110 c/l & .525" lift) in my 383 with a compression ratio of about 10.5:1 since 2003. My rocker arm ratio is 1.6 vs. the stock 1.5 so that gives me .560" lift on the valve instead of the rated .525". It idles nicely (check out the video in a couple of the other threads) and performs ok at low rpm's in town - with a 3.55 gear and a 4-speed trans. It did not like the 3.23 gears I had in it for a short time, though and it only pulls 9.5" - 10" of vacuum at idle which is a big deal if your car has power brakes or you want to use your defroster in cool weather (since the defroster works off of engine vacuum and won't switch from heat to defrost because of low vacuum - this I know from 1st hand experience).
If you aren't running power brakes or anything like that either cam will work well in a 383, but the one in the article is going to come in at a slightly higher rpm than mine, especially with that M-1 single plane intake. If you want better around town low speed performance with a strong mid-range and top end as well, better get the HE275HL-10, a Performer RPM intake and a minimum 3.55 gearset for the rearend unless you plan to go with the stroker or a 440. If that is the case go with the HE285HL-10 and intake used in the article or go all-out and get biggest cam in the family, the HE295HL-10. Whichever way you go make sure your shop can perform all the checks as Chris mentioned. Don't trust a build like this to just any engine shop. You need an experienced engine builder to do this type of work if you can't do it yourself. :cents:
Also, don't forget to get a quality set of rocker arms, chrome rocker shafts and valve springs (use Comp's recommended valve springs, retainers and locks). Lots of people skimp on the valve train and wonder why the engine just doesn't seem to run as well as they hoped or they begin breaking things in the valve train. Remember, it is a system and it is only as strong as its weakest link. A good valve train will assure that you are getting the advertised lift out of the cam and the stability to keep it all together.

 

[JJRJR]

Sounds like great advice. I'm thining I'll shy away from the Stroker for now. Got lot's of other needs for the car than 50 more HP.

I'm putting a list together today of the parts I decide to you so I can give them to my engine guy. I do have a question about heads though. What is a "competition" valve job? I read a book yesterday that explained to me that the valves are the single most negative detriment to gaining HP. The air sucked into the carb is significantly hindered by the valves. Without speding a ton of money, what should I have done to the stock 383 heads? My engine guy said something about a 3 angle valve job, but not really sure that's all I should do.

Thanks,

John

 

[moparchris]

I have been to the dyno a few times with 440 inch motors and found that the cam and head is really a limiting factor. The reason I said that the cam would be too small is that you leave a ton of torque (the biger cams accelerate the valve wide open faster making the duration at which you have full lift longer) and it limits the rpm range. Anything under 240 at .050 will drive like a dump truck with no real useful power curve. If your worried about vacuum or idle characteristics then widen the lobe seperation. Comps off the shelf stuff is a compromise since most people under cam their cars. I usually order a custom cam with their specs but give it 2-4 more degrees of LSA. This makes the motor idle great and spread out the torque curve, which makes less peak power but brings up the average quite a bit. Just look at the cams modern hipo engines use. The bottom line is that the stock head is good for 400 hp and you can up the torque by making a stroker out of it or port the heads and have a higher RPM high hp motor. This is the reason I recommend that you have a pro race engine builder build your engine. Even a stock engine will make a ton more power at the hands of an accomplished engine builder. The first thing he will ask you is "what do you expect from your engine" And they are not looking for a hp figure unless your last engine was dynoed and your disappointed in the power. Most people will tell you they have 500 hp and most of the time they are wrong by a hundred or more. :cents: So think hard about what you want from this rebuild. Do you want it to be tire smoker so you can go out and burnout for fun or do you want a 12 second Road Runner? Most Road Runners with a stock motor run real well and suprise most people. For instance I built an engine for a friend of a friend and he stated he wanted 500 hp, so I built a 431 stroker from his 383 and it met the goal. He put his Runner up a curb across the street and through a gas station. Too much power for his skills. They can be unruly at that level and will teach a guy respect immediately.

 

[mcmopar]

For instance I built an engine for a friend of a friend and he stated he wanted 500 hp, so I built a 431 stroker from his 383 and it met the goal. He put his Runner up a curb across the street and through a gas station. Too much power for his skills. They can be unruly at that level and will teach a guy respect immediately.

:facepalm: That had to hurt!

 

[moparchris]

Not nearly as embarassing as the guy I built a Hemi for his real A990 Plymouth who spun it out in traffic trying to leave the donut shop with a car guy audience of 500 or so! I felt so bad for him that I went out there and asked if he was okay (car was unhurt, thankfully) and he asked me to drive it home for him. So I did, he was a good friend, he beat lung cancer only to die at 58 of a heart attack.

 

[John69RR]

Chris and John are correct. It is not a drop-in replacement crank. These cranks like Eagle are made in China. They need to be checked and will probably need finishing. I know because I bought one a few years ago. I needed to have mine balanced with Mallory Metal because the bobweight was too light from the factory. The crank, machining, balancing and bearings came close to $1800.00. I have had this 452 stroker for almost 7 years and I love it. Chris and John please give me your opinion on my specs. 400 block bored .040, KB Pistons, out of the box Edelbrock heads, Comp Cams 256º .551" lift I & E, Crane ductiler iron rockers, 4 speed and a 6-bbl. I am thinking I need a little more gear. Presently it is a 3.23 and I was thinking about a 3.73. I am running the 14" Styled Road Wheels with 225/70 tires.

 

[mcmopar]

Chris and John are correct. It is not a drop-in replacement crank. These cranks like Eagle are made in China. They need to be checked and will probably need finishing. I know because I bought one a few years ago. I needed to have mine balanced with Mallory Metal because the bobweight was too light from the factory. The crank, machining, balancing and bearings came close to $1800.00. I have had this 452 stroker for almost 7 years and I love it. Chris and John please give me your opinion on my specs. 400 block bored .040, KB Pistons, out of the box Edelbrock heads, Comp Cams 256º .551" lift I & E, Crane ductiler iron rockers, 4 speed and a 6-bbl. I am thinking I need a little more gear. Presently it is a 3.23 and I was thinking about a 3.73. I am running the 14" Styled Road Wheels with 225/70 tires.

Sounds like a nice build to me. With a stroker like that putting more gear in it won't help hook those 225/70's! A 3.55 gear & Sure Grip (if you don't already have one) is a little more road friendly and will provide more than enough gear for that setup IMO.

 

[moparchris]

Chris and John are correct. It is not a drop-in replacement crank. These cranks like Eagle are made in China. They need to be checked and will probably need finishing. I know because I bought one a few years ago. I needed to have mine balanced with Mallory Metal because the bobweight was too light from the factory. The crank, machining, balancing and bearings came close to $1800.00. I have had this 452 stroker for almost 7 years and I love it. Chris and John please give me your opinion on my specs. 400 block bored .040, KB Pistons, out of the box Edelbrock heads, Comp Cams 256º .551" lift I & E, Crane ductiler iron rockers, 4 speed and a 6-bbl. I am thinking I need a little more gear. Presently it is a 3.23 and I was thinking about a 3.73. I am running the 14" Styled Road Wheels with 225/70 tires.

Sounds like a nice build to me. With a stroker like that putting more gear in it won't help hook those 225/70's! A 3.55 gear & Sure Grip (if you don't already have one) is a little more road friendly and will provide more than enough gear for that setup IMO.

I agree, tht must be a screamer. I love KB Hyper pistons they are light and well made. If I were to put more gear in it I would go with 3.91 or just leave it at 3.23. The thing about running a highway gear is that once it breaks loose its hard for the tire to catch up. With a more performance oriented gear it spins but the car actually will accelerate better. You have a lot of power to unlock by porting those Edelbrocks and going with a nice roller rocker if you ever want to gain more power.

 

[John69RR]

Thanks. Then I'll stick with the 3.23 Sure Grip I have now.