Bad day for the Roadrunner

[nicanor]

I know I wrote that I bought the 69 Roadrunner and the engine and trans was just rebuilt.

Well I heard lifter noise so I had the valve covers pulled and pulled the lifter that sounded bad (383). Then I pulled a good lifter. Well the bad lifter is about 1/16 or more shorter and concaved. The cam has got to be flat on that lobe also.

I bought this car because it was advertised as an engine with less then 200 miles with a rebuilt trans. Now i'm pulling the engine back down. This is not good news.

Well maybe now I'll make the color change.

Thanks for reading,
Barry

 

[roadrunnerh]

Wow, that blows. Well, at least the motor isn't toast?

 

[ACME A12]

Wow, that blows. Well, at least the motor isn't toast?

Harry, he'll have to tear it down and look at everything to make sure that metal shavings from the cam/lifter haven't eaten it up. Might be in for another complete rebuild...

Sorry to hear this, Barry. Good attitude in the face of a bad situation.

Ray

 

[Roadcuda]

That does suck Barry. I hope it doesn't turn out to be too bad a problem.

 

[dobie]

Good luck bro. Believe me, I feel your pain.

 

[69hemibeep]

Sorry to hear that Barry

 

[nicanor]

If I pull that engine the car will be some kinda blue or plum crazy.

Metal would seem to have to go everywhere. In the bearings, pistons and others I haven't mentioned.

So it had a Mopar 509 cam and lifter set. Kinda old school. How do I bump the hp/tq quite a bit and still use pump gas?

Thanks,
Barry

 

[moparchris]

I have had some experience with Comps XE series flat tappet hydraulic cams. There are great improvements to be seen in driveability from the infamous .509. Actually the .509 is a very good cam but it has a very narrow but powerful power band. Its draw backs are aformentioned power band, its poor vacuum at idle and poor but very choppy idle characteristics. Depending on how much the engine has been operated as the lobe is going flat will dictate how much damage the engine will incur. I recently had issue with a flat lobe on one of my cars and I caught it during break in and it lost .050 of lash. That motor had no damage at all and it just required a good cleaning. Okay here is my new revelation. A new hydraulic roller is just north of $600 dollars. A new flat tappet with nitriding and new lifts with an EDM hole in the bottom of the lifter for better oiling is just over $350. If you run the flat tappet specific oils the new flat tappet cams are iffy at best for longevity. An older flat tappet is more likely to last in todays conditions due to the new cams and lifters (chinese made) are very poor metalurgy. I will never put a flat tappet cam in any of my cars.

 

[nicanor]

Chris,

You are just North of me about an hour.

If I read this right, you recommend a hydraulic roller cam and lifters. Do I need to pull the engine ? The engine has about 150 miles on it and I lost about 1/16 of an inch of the lifter and it is concaved. Can I flush it out, or do I need to pull the pistons and bearings back out?

What high performance cam can I go with?

Thanks,
Barry

 

[Jim S.]

Sorry about that Barry. When I bought my RR in 2002 it had a couple of wasted lobes on the cam. I replaced the cam and lifters and continued on. Didn't rip it apart and check anything because I have the numbers matching engine in the shed that needs a rebuild. So I figure if this one dumps, it will be great incentive to get that one done....O.K. I'll shutup now and let Chris answer your question.....Good luck whatever you find....

 

[moparchris]

Chris,

You are just North of me about an hour.

If I read this right, you recommend a hydraulic roller cam and lifters. Do I need to pull the engine ? The engine has about 150 miles on it and I lost about 1/16 of an inch of the lifter and it is concaved. Can I flush it out, or do I need to pull the pistons and bearings back out?

What high performance cam can I go with?

Thanks,
Barry

Hey Barry,

1/16th inch is roughly .062" and if you consider how much of the cam lobe is gone then you get an idea of how much hardened metal is run through the motor. I think Jim is right though. If its a motor that you dont necessarily care about, then swap the cam and do a few oil changes and run it! Isn't that what oil filters are for? If you decide to go ahead and run the motor as is then go with a hydraulic flat tappet. If you go the removal and disassemble route to clean and replace bearings etc. then you are going to invest significant money and have a motor that you know about and trust. Then I would go roller.

 

[mcmopar]

I had a similar thing happen back in 2004 - only it was the about 1/4" of the fuel pump pushrod that was ground down to powder. I dropped the pan and cleaned it out, added a magnetic drain plug (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!), flushed the engine out and changed the oil every 500 miles for the next 2000 miles or so. I drove it up to the Mopar Nats and back from Orlando, FL in August of 2005, with a side-trip over to Indiana (2800 miles round trip) and it ran flawlessly. So far it has been trouble-free and I've put about 15,000 - 20,000 miles on it since the incident.
If you are going to run the engine without disassembly I second Chris's advice - and add a magneting drain plug to your oil pan - you'll be glad you did. Get one here:
http://marketplaceadvisor.channeladviso ... =193005736

 

[george68hemirr]

that really blows...Harry :brickwall: :brickwall: :brickwall:

 

[John69RR]

I had a similar thing happen back in 2004 - only it was the about 1/4" of the fuel pump pushrod that was ground down to powder. I dropped the pan and cleaned it out, added a magnetic drain plug (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!), flushed the engine out and changed the oil every 500 miles for the next 2000 miles or so. I drove it up to the Mopar Nats and back from Orlando, FL in August of 2005, with a side-trip over to Indiana (2800 miles round trip) and it ran flawlessly. So far it has been trouble-free and I've put about 15,000 - 20,000 miles on it since the incident.
If you are going to run the engine without disassembly I second Chris's advice - and add a magneting drain plug to your oil pan - you'll be glad you did. Get one here:
http://marketplaceadvisor.channeladviso ... =193005736

Harry that really sucks. MCMopar, I went through the same thing about 5 years ago. Someone told me that it was "common" when switching from a hydraulic to a solid lift lift cam that the fuel pump rod was going to crater and I should replace it with a hardened rod. So far no issues. Mine didn't turn to powder though a 1/4" actually broke off.

 

[Basketcase]

I'll agre with Chris and Johonny Mc, get the magnetic plus, several oil changes, and run it.

 

[SomeCarGuy]

If I pull that engine the car will be some kinda blue or plum crazy.

Metal would seem to have to go everywhere. In the bearings, pistons and others I haven't mentioned.

So it had a Mopar 509 cam and lifter set. Kinda old school. How do I bump the hp/tq quite a bit and still use pump gas?

Thanks,
Barry

As long as the damage is limited, this may have been a blessing in disguise.

Don't put a 509 back in it. In fact, I would say skip the entire MP lineup. Plenty of better cams have already been mentioned here. Unless that engine has had some SERIOUS work, I would look for a grind no bigger than the 484 MP cam- just from a real parts company, and not junk pushers.

The roller is sound advice if you can at all swing it.

 

[SomeCarGuy]

I just saw the post with the Ebay link.

No way that engine would like a 509, no way. I don't need to see anything or hear any details. A stealth built 383 that could handle that cam and be happy would cost nearly as much as the car did. We're talking Extrude honed manifolds, the WORKS.

 

[A31PKG]

All good advice... I like my Comp XE 268. Great power band, good vacuum, and nice idle with a bit of chop. Use their 911 spring kit and oil additive for break-in. In fact, you can install the springs with the inner one out for the first 500 miles. I didn't do that, but it's not a bad idea. Also, you can drop the pan and give it a good cleaning. Look up at the screen while you're at it to make sure no pieces of metal are stuck to it. Two or three oil changes in sucession and a magnetic drain plug and you should be good to go...

 

[Basketcase]

and while you'tr looking at the pick up screen anyway, look for chuncks of nylon off the original timing gears.

 

[A31PKG]

and while you'tr looking at the pick up screen anyway, look for chuncks of nylon off the original timing gears.

Good point, and a double roller timing chain is a good idea too... even if the chain & gears have already been replaced, it might be a good idea to start fresh. Maybe even a new oil pump for good measure?