Running a little warm...Radiator Re core?

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  1. Jazzhorns

    Jazzhorns 69 Bahama Yellow-Air Grabber-4 Spd

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    Hi Guys,

    I have a 69 RR with a 383. Once the outside temps reach 80 degrees or so the car starts running on the warm side. I've not gotten into any lengthy traffic stops or long lines waiting to get into a show, but my gut tells me that she'll over heat.

    Running temp right now is 190 -195 degrees....she immediately gets up over 200 to 205 when in bumper to bumper traffic.

    I'm planning on having the radiator recored. Anyone here had that done? Could you tell a significant difference?

    Just curious. Thanks...
     
  2. quikbird

    quikbird Well-Known Member

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    might just need flushed. how about a fan shroud? have you checked thermostat lately to make sure it is working properly?
     
  3. dmartin

    dmartin Well-Known Member

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    May be the trusty old clutch fan, do you have a three row radiator are your hoses collapsing
     
  4. dppayton

    dppayton Member

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    I had the same problem going on for my 68RR. So I drained it down and flushed out the radiator. He was pretty dirty in there. Pulled and ordered both upper and lower hoses since I have the system down. And pulled the thermostat housing and found it pretty nasty and sticking. Ordered a fan shroud for it from classic industries. Fixing to put it all back together tomorrow. Here is a pic once I pulled the thermostat housing.

    20180701_201111.jpg
     
  5. Ranger

    Ranger Well-Known Member

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    That car looks familiar. Is that you Dave?

    If so, I should know the car well enough, but..........
    What thermostat are you runnig?
    Can't recall if you have a fan shroud or not.
    Those two things made all the difference in the world on mine. I went from a factory recommended 190 to a 180 and added a fan shroud from Mega Parts (pricey, but worth every penny). Without a fan shroud, you're just not pulling any air through that radiator at a stand still. I got as high as 230 in the line at the power tour at Madison. When I got home I changed the stat, ordered and added the shroud and she's been happy ever since and never goes over 190-195 even in the worst of conditions like the 2017 Powertour traffic through Davenport in 95° temps.
     
  6. dppayton

    dppayton Member

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    Does anyone know what torque lb. Should be for the thermostat housing bolts?
     
  7. Ranger

    Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I checked, but couldn't find any torque spec's in my '69 service manual, but that's probably because it's not that critical. I just tighten 'em down to German spec's..........gutentite.
     
  8. Russ69Runner

    Russ69Runner Well-Known Member

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    Did you check your old thermostat in boiling water to see if it opened up at the rite temp. But sometimes it is better to replace the old one to be sure. Had a 360 motor in a truck it kept running hot. Had gotten a radiator cap from the local part's store. Got with the truck dealer ship part's and they sold me the rite pressure cap. This solved the over heating problem. Something that simple can make all difference in the world. Like the wrong pressure cap. Good luck hope you get her figured out. Russ.
     
  9. mac

    mac Well-Known Member

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    basics, clean newer coolant mixed in the proper ratio. clean radiator (no scale). known working thermostat (185 degree). good clutch fan and a fan shroud. also is your mixture and timing where it needs to be? lean mixture and retarded timing will raise temps. i have a 500 inch stroker and run the original 22 inch rad with no problems and we just got through a little heat wave with mid 90's and high humidity.
     
  10. Jazzhorns

    Jazzhorns 69 Bahama Yellow-Air Grabber-4 Spd

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  11. Jazzhorns

    Jazzhorns 69 Bahama Yellow-Air Grabber-4 Spd

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    Yes sir, its me. Thermostat and water pump are less than a year old and have very few miles on them the way I drive. Just had the radiator flushed...shop said the flow was great, no need for re core....put it back together today still running hot. Weird...il figure it out...its just aggravating.
     
  12. Ranger

    Ranger Well-Known Member

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    What temp thermostat?
    Can't recall if you have a fan shroud or not. Yea or nay?
     
  13. RKNRLR

    RKNRLR Well-Known Member

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    just drive faster
     
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  14. Don Gould

    Don Gould Member

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    If your initial timing is too low for Pump Gas you will have a rich idle and temp will creep up under those conditions
     
  15. Beastiedog

    Beastiedog New Member

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    Man....I hear all of you. But the simplest and worry free fix is to install an electric pusher if you really wanna keep the viscous. Otherwise get a direct fit new alum radiator and Spal fan setup. Ran that combo on all my B Bodies and have no problem EVER!!!!
     
  16. Don Gould

    Don Gould Member

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    Many cooling issues like this can be cured by getting your tune up right, it's way cheaper and it permanently solves the issues rather than spending a bunch of money trying to put a band-aid on it.
    Look at this solution to getting enough timing in it to burn pump gas:
    eBay item# 323099910935 $29.00 or direct from FBO Ignition for $25.00

    This plate allows you to add more initial timing to the engine without exceeding the 34* total timing as they were engineered to run most efficiently at under load. Then connect a vacuum can to the constant manifold vacuum port to get it even higher at idle and part throttle/cruise to get the best mileage and cleanest burn. An engine that gets good mileage is an engine that is tuned properly.

    This plate and a correctly adjusted and calibrated vacuum canister will correct your timing events so it can burn all the fuel it's getting and get rid of that rich stinky idle. If your having problems with your carb not responding to your adjustments its usually timing events and not a carb issue.

    How much initial timing?
    Start your engine, warm it up, pull the vacuum line off and plug it so you don't create a vacuum leak'
    Hopefully you have a dial-back type timing light? Start out by advancing it to 18* at idle.
    Now shut it off and let it heat soak for 2-3 minutes.
    Try starting it by just bumping the key.
    Did it fire right off? Or did it drag the starter down? Or kick backwards and maybe even kick back through the carb?
    My guess is it fired right up with no issues.
    Now repeat this procedure adding 2* at a time until it kicks back or drags the starter down, at this point lets say it's kicks at 22, back it up 2* to 20, should be a huge improvement in how quick it now starts and idle quality, exhaust smell should have improved noticeably.
    So we have established that the engine will handle 20* initial timing but with that much timing you'll be at probably 45* under load and it WILL detonate, so don't attempt to drive it set like this. You can crack the throttle and see how much the throttle response has improved, it'll be crisp and clean. Don't be afraid to whack that throttle it won't detonate. It takes 2 conditions to make a engine detonate "Heat" and "Pressure (load)", if one of these conditions is not present (load) then it won't detonate, like I said Don't try and drive it.
    Using the FBO Plate now you can install it using the 14* slot which will limit the mechanical advance to 14* + the 20* initial for a total of 34* under load, Perfect!

    Now you can set your vacuum can up using your dial back timing light.

    First I want to explain these vacuum cans.... The SAE standard adjustable vacuum can has a large hex shape molded into the metal can this is how you can tell the difference between the adjustable and non-adjustable varieties. Non-adjustable cans are for Emissions Vehicles and Adjustable are for pre-emissions or your Hot Rod engines.

    This has always been the way its been done it in America, until the Chinese imports flooded the market, and they are tricky folks always trying to deceive you by making it cheaper and claiming "Sam ting but much cheapa" they ARE NOT the same. Mail order houses and mass merchandisers are notorious for always trying to have the lowest price, the quality and functionality suffers drastically. They make vacuum cans with the SAE standard hex design... but they are NOT adjustable, what we call the piston that moves inside the can to increase the pressure on the internal spring is plastic instead of steel so they easily strip the threads if its actually an adjustable type can, they use a one spring fits all so unless your making 12" of vacuum or more at idle you can't get the can adjusted even if it is an adjustable type. Then they top it off by using an assortment of Allen wrench sizes mostly in metric, USA standard is a 3/16 Allen. The screw is such poor quality even if you find a metric Allen you'll usually strip the head out trying to adjust it. Many of these imported distributors are of such low quality we won't even work on them, in this business the last guy to touch it it is responsible for the warranty, we won't be the warranty dumping ground for these low end units, Spectra being the worst of them all.

    So the object here is to get the idle timing up to 30-32 with the vacuum connected to a constant manifold vacuum port on the carb or directly to a manifold source.
    Using your dial-back timing light simply plug in the vac can and check your timing, experiment by checking, then adjust, check and adjust until it effectively brings the timing up to 28-32 at idle, remember that the adjustment only changes the sensitivity and not the total amount of timing.

    Vacuum timing degrees are controlled by the arm, if its a good USA Made vacuum can it will have a number stamped on the arm, take that number and double it for distributor degrees, a common one is a 6.5 which gives you 13* when fully engaged. There's not much you can do with your vacuum can if you want less or more than amount stamped on the can, we have a propriety method of setting limiters up on the vacuum cans to limit the amount of advance that the canister will generate.

    So now you have the initial timing set up, the mechanical advance limiter in place, the vacuum canister adjusted correctly so what happens when you drive the car?

    Its now got plenty of initial timing to light the fire when you hit the key, as soon as the engine lights off you have plenty of timing to burn unleaded ethanol infused so called Gasoline, so now you have nice clean idle, very crisp throttle response, and your completely burning the fuel in the combustion process so you exhaust is clean and your eyes stop watering from the stink of UN-burned fuel.

    Spring rate or "Mechanical Curve"
    Forget about the factory specs they mean nothing, you've probably changed the cam, heads, intake, converted to electronic ignition, added headers and the most relevant of all the oil company's have changed the FUEL formulations. We can't buy 1968-69 fuel anymore, today's fuel formulations are complex and loaded with ethanol, fuel pump lubricants for in tank fuel pumps on injected vehicles, injector cleaners and a multitude of other additives that are not designed in any way to burn in your old style push rod motors. Most of them don't even burn, they are designed to to vaporize under the extreme combustion chamber temperatures that are developed in the new injected, computer controlled vehicles to achieve the highest fuel economy. So bringing your timing in at 1600 or 2000 RPM is not longer an viable option. Why would you need all that timing when you cam does't even start making power until 3500? If your convertor is a 3000 stall what would be the point? If your hammering your 4 speed to 6200 why do you need the timing in so low... all it going to do is create excessive cylinder pressure and heat before the engine gets into it's power-band, causing detonation, carbon build up and lousy bottom end tork. Where it needs to "All In" depends on the cam duration, compression ratio, gearing, trans type, head type and the weight of the car. There's no formula or rate chart that can read all these variables and give you a definitive number, only experience and knowledge of how to read everything as package can determine that number. Between Jim and I we have been doing this for over 100 years... I think we have it kinda figured out.

    Now lets go for a ride, at part throttle cruise at 65 MPH you have the carb throttle blades open maybe 10% and your spinning the motor at 2400-3000 RPM depending on the gear so you have good RPM but the carb is restricting the air flow so the motor is making lots of vacuum. So now you'll have your 20* initial, maybe another 10* of mechanical and vacuum can is pulling another 13, add those all together and you'll be at 43* of timing, awesome! At cruise your only running on the primary side of the carburetor which is by design delivery a very lean mixture (hence the power valve or a vacuum secondary) Lean mixtures take longer to burn than rich mixtures as the fuel particles are further apart so the flame front speed is reduced. With this is mind its only common sense that you need more timing at cruise to optimize the combustion process. Anywhere from 40-48* at cruise is fine. new computer controlled cars will run easily as high as 60* or more under certain circumstances of course all controlled by the computer and the information it receives from 15 to 30 or more different sensors feeding it information at 100-1000 samples per second. just slightly more sophisticated than our old analog systems.

    So now you have invested your time and money in getting your distributor dialed in, please don't plug it in to a transistor type box (Orange, Blue, Green or pink) and expect it to perform, all those old design, slow transistor type stock boxes will retard your timing by 8* starting at 3200 and by 5200 or less they have retarded the timing by 8* or more. The (Proclaimed) 7500 RPM will hold timing better but it will drop out put to about 8KV , you need at least 35KV to keep the fire burning correctly.

    Mopar Performance hasn't made a orange or any other ignition control box or distributor for over a decade, don't be fooled by someone in China who bought a licensing agreement on a part number.

    There's more to it than what I have time to type here but I hope that it gives you guidance and gets you going in the right direction.

    You can email questions to me at tech@4secondsflat.com or visit our website and read more articles in the tech section.
     
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  17. roadrunnerh

    roadrunnerh Well-Known Member

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    I had my original radiator re-cored and restored through Glen-ray. My temp issues are gone.
    Radiator 1.JPG
     
  18. quikbird

    quikbird Well-Known Member

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    that looks very nice.
     
  19. Art Raney

    Art Raney New Member

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    Same issue, 383 runs a little warm. New radiator, hoses and stat. Fan shroud is the remedy? Pulled the stat out today to check if that will work a little better.
     
  20. 69hemibeep

    69hemibeep Sponge Bob Square Wheels

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    Pusher fan restricts flow at speed
     
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