so whats everybodies opinion on this
- Thread starter george68hemirr
- Start date
george68hemirr said:
The bill or their protest?
george68hemirr
I think you guys are full of shit.
we know why they are protesting.....the billACME A12 said:
george68hemirr said:
All depends on your persective. Unions were necessary in the formative days of our country/economy. Early workers had no rights. Those days are gone, and so therefore are the usefulness of unions IMHO. I'm sure you had to carry a union card in your line of work and will probably look upon this differently. I've only belonged to a union once in my life and it was useless as tits on a bull. I see this as being not much different from when the ATCs went on strike and Reagan told them to go pound sand; being a Federal/State/Public employee doesn't make you in anyway special...just means you're more than likely part of the problem; not the solution... :cents:
Jim S.
Well-Known Member
What burns me are the Dems hiding. I would like to see Walker hold 14 special elections.
:chuck:
:chuck:
george68hemirr
I think you guys are full of shit.
my wifes union with the post office is also useless because your dealing with the government and dont have a leg to stand on to a certin point.....it keeps there bosses in check to go by the rules....if it wasnt there they would really be stepped on.....and it goes to show how well they are really doing....government run businesses...they only lost 8.7 billion last year and it wasnt because of the unions
then we have the ironworkers unions.....that is the real deal that is nation wide that protects the workers rights/job conditions/safety
pensions are the greatest thing everybody looks for when they retire if you paid into it....they paid into it from the day they started working to help the guys that retired and are going to be looking forward to having this since maybe social security will be bleed dry from government which didnt have the right to be gambling it in the stock markets
if unions are busted there is going to be no more middle class workers....it will be the poor and the rich
i retired with a nice pension that i can live nicely and next year i will get social security.....i am loving it
i have a buddy that worked all his life and will get no pension but wised up 7 years ago and joined the union and will now be set with pension when he retires
when i got out of the airforce in the 70s all i cared about was fast cars/wild women and beer but you have to look at the big picture when you get old and have to retire
then we have the ironworkers unions.....that is the real deal that is nation wide that protects the workers rights/job conditions/safety
pensions are the greatest thing everybody looks for when they retire if you paid into it....they paid into it from the day they started working to help the guys that retired and are going to be looking forward to having this since maybe social security will be bleed dry from government which didnt have the right to be gambling it in the stock markets
if unions are busted there is going to be no more middle class workers....it will be the poor and the rich
i retired with a nice pension that i can live nicely and next year i will get social security.....i am loving it
i have a buddy that worked all his life and will get no pension but wised up 7 years ago and joined the union and will now be set with pension when he retires
when i got out of the airforce in the 70s all i cared about was fast cars/wild women and beer but you have to look at the big picture when you get old and have to retire
Roadcuda
Well-Known Member
Yeah, they aren't getting their way so like little kids they go away crying and hide!Jim S. said:
Roadcuda said:
It was/is unbelieveable. Beyond pathetic...
roadrunnerh
Well-Known Member
In this instance, I disagree with the union......
If you recall, the unions KILLED the steel industry in my neck of the woods.
If you recall, the unions KILLED the steel industry in my neck of the woods.
69hemibeep
Sponge Bob Square Wheels
I believe the people should be able to unionize. And yes there have been a few unions that went overboard with benefits and pay but the companies also agreed to it. I never saw a CEO or board member, or a politician take a cut in the percentage that line workers have been asked to take during this down turn. I don't know what the compensation of union workers is like up there, but for the Dems to walk out is childish.
69hemibeep said:
Easy to agree to perhaps "excessive" compensation/benefits in times of feast. Then when the famine comes EVERONE has to give back. I can tell you for a fact that our CEO didn't take a bonus and cut his salary by 25% when we (aviation industry) really started to tank in the fall of 2008. Some of them talk the talk and walk the walk, but you're not going to hear about them; that doesn't make for a good news story. As for the ones that take the golden parachute route, etc. - shoot them. The unions killed Pan-Am and Eastern; the list goes on ad nauseum. We needed them 100 years ago; today - not so much. Any (large) company that fails to deal fairly with its employess is front page news...and that's not the kind of pub that they want... Times have changed, business models have changed, and its time for those that think that a company is supposed to take care of them for their entire life to catch up. Pensions have been replaced by IRAs, 401Ks, etc., etc. The onus is now on the individual to prepare for retirement. Companies cannot compete when they have to ante up for legacy costs that their upstart competitors do not have to contend with; they eventually go under and people lose jobs. It boggles my mind that people cannot grasp this simple notion. It has been reported (before they became Government Motors) that $6K of the sticker price of a new GMC truck went to pensions & medical costs for RETIREES. Not employees - RETIREES. Hard to stay in business with those kind of dead, non-productive costs hanging around your neck - and they nearly didn't...
As for Wisc., it sounds like if they don't make concessions then people will lose jobs. The Govenor has stated this point blank. I've never understood people that would rather have 100% of nothing than 80-85-90% (whatever the number will become) of something...
69hemibeep
Sponge Bob Square Wheels
I bet I can count on one hand CEOs that gave back, good for your guy. That said the new business model appears to be either use 3rd world labor or work for the same compensation. You take a plant to say Mexico to hold the line on costs 
The big boys are making money hand over fist rather than to reduce prices is what should happen, but it will go full circle when americans can no longer buy the goods :yesnod: If you use the same factors to compute unemployment they used during the depression, today's unemployment comes in at near 22-23% according to my source so we are getting there :soap:
The big boys are making money hand over fist rather than to reduce prices is what should happen, but it will go full circle when americans can no longer buy the goods :yesnod: If you use the same factors to compute unemployment they used during the depression, today's unemployment comes in at near 22-23% according to my source so we are getting there :soap:
george68hemirr
I think you guys are full of shit.
and thats your opinion
Pensions have been replaced by IRAs, 401Ks, etc., etc.....wrong but is true with todays non-union.....unions still to this day pensions .....to get a pension you need 5 straight years of work with no break in service to be vested then if you get 1000 man hours a year[had up to 2000/2500 a year] you get a pension credit at a set amount[could go up with cost of living].....when you reach the ripe old age of 57 and have 30 years of service you can retire with a full pension..medical/dental/optical....we also save up our annuities/vacation/topping out monies for a nest egg/retirement
the big business boys need to be put in-check and thats why unions are still strong today.......people are fed up with this shit and thats why they belong to unions......
Labor unions in the United States are legally recognized as representatives of workers in many industries. The most prominent unions are among public sector employees such as teachers and police. Activity by labor unions in the United States today centers on collective bargaining over wages, benefits, and working conditions for their membership and on representing their members if management attempts to violate contract provisions. Although much smaller compared to their peak membership in the 1950s, American unions also remain an important political factor, both through mobilization of their own memberships and through coalitions with like-minded activist organizations around issues such as immigrant rights, trade policy, health care, and living wage campaigns.
Pensions have been replaced by IRAs, 401Ks, etc., etc.....wrong but is true with todays non-union.....unions still to this day pensions .....to get a pension you need 5 straight years of work with no break in service to be vested then if you get 1000 man hours a year[had up to 2000/2500 a year] you get a pension credit at a set amount[could go up with cost of living].....when you reach the ripe old age of 57 and have 30 years of service you can retire with a full pension..medical/dental/optical....we also save up our annuities/vacation/topping out monies for a nest egg/retirement
the big business boys need to be put in-check and thats why unions are still strong today.......people are fed up with this shit and thats why they belong to unions......
Labor unions in the United States are legally recognized as representatives of workers in many industries. The most prominent unions are among public sector employees such as teachers and police. Activity by labor unions in the United States today centers on collective bargaining over wages, benefits, and working conditions for their membership and on representing their members if management attempts to violate contract provisions. Although much smaller compared to their peak membership in the 1950s, American unions also remain an important political factor, both through mobilization of their own memberships and through coalitions with like-minded activist organizations around issues such as immigrant rights, trade policy, health care, and living wage campaigns.
george68hemirr
I think you guys are full of shit.
i think it was more like china/poland/and all those foreign countries that killed the steel industries......nobody wanted to work for 2 bucks an hourroadrunnerh said:
69hemibeep
Sponge Bob Square Wheels
We had an 80 year equation of age and service for a minimum pension. almost a quarter of mine now goes to health care that used to be 100% plus deductible and goes up every year.george68hemirr said:
george68hemirr
I think you guys are full of shit.
every union has a different deal going on....some are much better then others and we are much better.....our bennys are paid 80% and we have a copay......a buddy worked for the MTA in the city.....he gets cost of living increases in his pension/no copay/100% bennys paid and a great pension
sam z
Well-Known Member
I'm a NY teacher and watching this with great interest. You might be a little surprised if I gave my entire opinion.
I don't want to go on and on. No desire. But let's examine what is occurring in Wisconsin. Their public sector employees have
contributed a negligible sum to their OWN retirement, and just slightly more to their health care. This crap won't float anymore. Why should the tax payer be expected to carry the load? This stuff has been coming to a boil for years, and now it arrived. No surprise here at all.
And, to my understanding, it is now spreading rapidly to other mid western states.
Could anybody imagine what would have happened to repubs if they ran from Washington instead of being present for the vote when Obamacare "passed?" Can anybody imagine at all? The ridicule would have been overwhelming and incredibly insulting from nearly every media outlet.
I don't want to go on and on. No desire. But let's examine what is occurring in Wisconsin. Their public sector employees have
contributed a negligible sum to their OWN retirement, and just slightly more to their health care. This crap won't float anymore. Why should the tax payer be expected to carry the load? This stuff has been coming to a boil for years, and now it arrived. No surprise here at all.
And, to my understanding, it is now spreading rapidly to other mid western states.
Could anybody imagine what would have happened to repubs if they ran from Washington instead of being present for the vote when Obamacare "passed?" Can anybody imagine at all? The ridicule would have been overwhelming and incredibly insulting from nearly every media outlet.
69hemibeep
Sponge Bob Square Wheels
I don't know what Wisconsin is like it sounds as if you have a better feel for it. We were always a good amount below market as far as pay so we were in a way contributing to our benefits and told that's what was happening. The UAW was completely out of control, I believe the term is featherbedding.sam z said:
george68hemirr
I think you guys are full of shit.
The UAW was completely out of control, I believe the term is featherbedding.
well if they are out of control and tax payers are footing the bill then things need to be changed....sam ....glad you stepped up to clear this up
well if they are out of control and tax payers are footing the bill then things need to be changed....sam ....glad you stepped up to clear this up
69hemibeep
Sponge Bob Square Wheels
Watching the news last night showed the main reason for the walk out. The state wants to collect union dues then pass them along to the unions. Basically giving the employees a way to opt out of the union and not pay $1000 a year. That would be like it is here as a right to work state, you don't have to belong to the unions.